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jonnyrig
climber
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Jan 13, 2016 - 10:32am PT
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There's probably already a law against it. What you need to do is make three more laws that redefine it and incorporate other identical laws by reference, along with a law that makes you responsible even if you weren't present simply because nobody mentioned your name.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Jan 13, 2016 - 10:44am PT
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Why can't we just go back to having no laws but the laws that we need?
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jonnyrig
climber
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Jan 13, 2016 - 10:51am PT
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Which laws do we need? Answers will vary...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2016 - 10:57am PT
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Intent is really not an issue in civil liability, unless you are calculating punitive damages.
Intent is a component of SOME crimes, it is referred to as specific intent crimes. Murder is a specific intent crime. If the intent to kill was not there then it becomes manslaughter.
Other times just hte act is a crime, regardless of intent.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/general-vs-specific-intent.html
The SOVCITs (sovereign citizens) believe that you have to have a victim to have a crime, and the government can not be the victim. All kinds of cool stuff becomes possible
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jan 13, 2016 - 11:18am PT
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if intent to kill was not there then it becomes manslaughter
Um... No.
Not only is intent not required, You don't even have to be the person who killed someone to be convicted of murder.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2016 - 11:51am PT
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I agree Lorenzo, there are other exceptions too, I was just generalizing.
Some DUI can be murder without intent
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jan 13, 2016 - 03:25pm PT
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Bundy going thru records and will file land transfer papers with the local registrar, ala Sovereign Nation style.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 13, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
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I wonder if the good folks at Malheur would kindly return the dildos I sent, if they are not needed.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Jan 13, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
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Community meeting, The Sheriff , Oregon state Rep. Cliff Bentz and rightwing conspiracy nut> Pete Santilli getting kicked out of meeting.....lol..warms my heart.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Backcountry hunters & anglers
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jan 13, 2016 - 04:31pm PT
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Great post Nita.
Ol' Petey getting booted from the meeting was priceless!
Looks like many of the people of Oregon are getting fed up.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Jan 13, 2016 - 04:35pm PT
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Consider: some anonymous troll posts a video of someone supposedly starting a fire somewhere. That anonymous troll makes the case for malicious behavior.
None of you were there.
Neither were you; but you seem to have your mind made up. Why do you think I ask questions?
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jonnyrig
climber
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Jan 13, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
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You seem to think we're all unfit to have an opinion, since, you know, we weren't there. I may have misread that, though. And thanks, at least, for the consideration.
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Jan 13, 2016 - 04:51pm PT
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People with out guns do stupid sh#t too. Like burn out ranches.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Jan 13, 2016 - 05:03pm PT
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I have lots of opinions. That doesn't mean they're right... and believe it or not, some of them have changed based on discussions here. (gasp!)
Sometimes it's interesting to prod the trolls a little.
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Jan 13, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
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I admire the courage of the man who uncovered the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge sign in the second video Nita shared.
After all, he did that without carrying a weapon and did so against those who use firearms as if they are a professional military force. This militia is not well regulated. Their lack of training makes them especially dangerous to the public.
What he did is actually courageous.
Those back country hunters and anglers are an articulate group. I respect their methods and understand they truly care about what this militant group refers to as the 'resource'. I had no idea how significant this place, Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, is for North and South American bird migration.
Oh, and one little take-home message from this thread is that it helps raise a bit of awareness to facial paralysis.
I don't have the link handy, but when I first saw photos of Ryan Bundy I wondered if he was chewing tobacco. I learned he suffered an injury as a child that caused permanent damage to the nerves on one side of his face.
I saw a youtube of him explaining this very matter-of-factly and really appreciated him doing this. He must have explained this over and over throughout his life, and whatever the context was, I appreciated his taking time to answer the question.
Ryan should just leave that bunch because he's the only one who makes any sense in any of few recordings of this group that I've reviewed.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jan 13, 2016 - 05:50pm PT
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That Tim Puckett seems like a good dude.
Tim Puckett, the rancher whose cattle graze private rangeland adjoining the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, said he didn't give Ammon Bundy and his band of armed militants permission to enter the ranch Monday afternoon and destroy a publicly owned fence.
"I am very upset," Puckett told The Oregonian/OregonLive.
His ranch hands have already repaired the fence.
"They're not coming onto my place no more," he said of the militants. "If they do, I'm gonna have to do something about it. I don't want them going across my ground."
"I work with BLM," Puckett said. "I have no problem with them." He said government officials told him of their plans to erect the fence, which he said "has not nor will it affect my cattle operation."
"I am a good steward of the land. ... In no way do I feel that I am entitled to the refuge for grazing," he said.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jan 13, 2016 - 07:26pm PT
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Great stuff, Nita!
Starve the bastards. Period.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jan 13, 2016 - 08:29pm PT
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Ok, this is funny.
Shipped discreetly.
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