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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 25, 2013 - 08:11pm PT
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DMT wrote: That is the full extent of this law. Rephrased properly... the law is called...
Mutual respect.
MUTUAL....
or nothing.
Ain't going to happen, one group thinks it is the moral majority, rides the higher horse and walks on water.
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Cracko
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
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Sep 25, 2013 - 08:19pm PT
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Well, all in all I have enjoyed this though,like somebody up thread said, it is also depressing. The human condition will assure that all the wonderful personalities and characters will be remembered, accomplishments noted, myths and legacies created only to be reinterpreted and revised by future generations. Be proud of who you are and what you accomplished, and remember the advise I gave to middle school students for 30 years........In most cases the best response is no response.
Cracko
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Sep 25, 2013 - 08:35pm PT
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In the end, we are the measure of our desire. How we fill the emptiness, that is our legend. How empty are the legends, that is the wind. ~DP
From The Silver Chalice by Jeff Long
;>\
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Sep 25, 2013 - 08:45pm PT
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FYI, some of the Stonemasters you diss are the very people who trained the SEALS who took out Bin Laden and various other high visibility targets (JL)
Here we go again . . . memory enhancement syndrome
I've no doubt there is a grain of truth in this statement. Indeed, when I took Colonel George Bristol out on one of my solo climbs about twelve years ago I suppose I could say I "trained" the ex-commander of JSOC (includes the SEALS)in Northern Africa. What total BS.
I can't decide if JL suffers from some sort of mental problem or if he does this intentionally. In either case, this man needs help.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 25, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
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A lot of Navy Seals came to YOSAR for training over the years .......
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Sep 25, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
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People whining about wanting to fix routes that other people climbed before them, rather than climbing their own, is just plain sad. But hey, I guess that is progress for the young and old people who can't climb bold anymore.
So bolt away new pioneers, like you said, no one will care 10 years from now.
If you are on this thread advocating retro-bolting routes someone else did before you, but not doing it, you are just another internet poser crying for attention.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 25, 2013 - 09:48pm PT
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wanting to fix routes that other people climbed before them, rather than climbing their own, is just plain sad.
I don't advocate changing/retro-ing anything, but this is just a stupid statement. Yes, I can just go "climb my own" new routes at Suicide or the Meadows, those are total blank canvases, not climbed out at all.
It's like you guys are still stuck in 1970, as 17 year old rag-weed baked dropouts, when the crags were undeveloped and there were about 15 climbers total in any given city.
At least up your game by constructing logical arguments if you have any desire to influence the younger generation and convince them (it ain't me that needs the convincing, I'm 40 and couldn't give two shits about museum piece slab routes...stay, go, whatever)
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
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Sep 25, 2013 - 09:56pm PT
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A lot of Navy Seals came to YOSAR for training over the years .......
I've met a few and what impressed me most was how hard the Seal life was on them and how the government turned it's back on them.
I'd like to hear more about this when you have some free time.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 25, 2013 - 10:39pm PT
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the masked sackler?
LMAO
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Sep 25, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
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I won't go into more details but let it be known that the Stonemasters and the SEALS go back to the mid-1970s, and their involvement together was . . . (JL)
Ooooh . . . CIA black ops maybe! Super secret, eyes only kinda stuff. I know, if you told us you would have to kill us!
;>|
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Sep 25, 2013 - 10:56pm PT
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asdf wtf
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Sep 25, 2013 - 10:59pm PT
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I was hangin' with some stone master types and seals one time in Idyllwild. Clark was there and some others, Finley for sure, maybe even Coz, they were teaching the spec ops guys how to climb. They had rubber coated gear to be silent.
End of the day we were down at some bistro in town. There was this one Seal guy who copped a serious attitude all day, like "I am a killing machine and this climbing sh*t is for pansies."
So we're sitting around a table and, as usual, I am the only one without a date. So every so often, when Mr Seal Death Machine is looking at me, I pour a bit of beer into my hand, swish it around and toss it. Finally he can't take it any longer and demands "WTF are you doing?"
"Getting my date drunk" is my answer.
Despite his best effort to keep it together the guy cracked up.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Sep 25, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
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Today there is one less crag to worry about
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Sep 26, 2013 - 12:02am PT
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Does it make you feel proud to pick on the very man who put you on the map (SeeR)
I would never pick on my old friend Pat Ament.
;>)
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Sep 26, 2013 - 12:12am PT
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Sneer, Largo only added Cali creds to what the rest of the climbing universe already knew...
... the small circle with the arrow pointing the way drawn with chalk kept may of us busy for years, just trying to get off the ground!
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Sep 26, 2013 - 12:16am PT
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Are you outta your mind. We never put John Gill on the map. I'm mostly just clowing around here when I should be working and don't mean much, especially the whole sac and arrogance and blowhard BS because people just jump on it like flies on a brown trout, but you have to understand John Gill was the man longer before I ever saw a handhold. I don't mind revising history with all kind of made up hooey, especially about anything I did (we had our fun), but I draw the line at John Gill.
But it is goofy to me that Koss would insist the he equates courage with risk, and would demean those who authored run out routes as not being sufficiently risky doods, thought they originally took a beat down here for assuming that they owned the rock and established routes that others were frightened to try owing to the unjustified risk involved, unless you talk to Joe, who insists it was no risk but basic staircase climbing to those who did it being they were so honed. Because so many people come at this from such oblique angles, it's a wonder there's anything coherent going on here at all. And people in war zones are not so much taking risks, as having to endure great danger, mostly not by choice. Climber go at risk by their own free will for a variety of reasons.
But I do hear people saying that the old museum climbs are basically no-go these days and agree that at least some of them, preferably several really big name climbs, like the Bachar-Yerian, should be bolted up for sake of an experiment.
JL
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Sep 26, 2013 - 12:43am PT
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As a matter of interest, how long did it take to put up the classic face routes on the Middle that have shaped much of this discussion?
I was shaking off holds in the Gunks and Seneca while this FA drama on the Middle played out the Valley. In the East there were similar community held preferences regarding what was cool and what would bring on the wrath of the better climbers who were setting the games rules. I spent lots of time up and down climbing hard stuff because falling was not part of a successful climb under the game as I had learned. It seemed that floating a route with good solid form was better than scrapping and grunting your way up; we knew when we had climbed a route well vs. surviving it. This is an internal matter as we are our own hardest critics.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Sep 26, 2013 - 12:45am PT
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"Your humor and lack of respect for the true legends here, will not be tolerated. Surly vagy run outs on Middle done by millions are far more sacful than your tiny little 10 thousand foot face of ice,..."
Legends like Bolting Bob and Vagasurus Hedge?
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Sep 26, 2013 - 01:55am PT
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Yeah Seer thanks for setting me straight. How could I have overlooked the true legends like Bolting Bob and Vagasurus Hedge? Without this thread I never would have known that the "fake" legends like John Long, Russ, BVD, and anyone else who put up routes in fine style, are nothing but "chest thumping frauds". Thanks.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Sep 26, 2013 - 02:07am PT
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I'd also like to add that I myself am a "fraud". I'm almost certain I've power drilled more borehole footage than even Bolting Bob himself. At least it's R/X rated
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