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Hoser
climber
vancouver
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No the funniest thing is that this is the view for the Squamish gondola for the next month
http://squamish.ca/quick-links/webcams
and this is the view for the same priced peak to peak gondola which includes the ride up on the whistler gondola..
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Hoser nails it.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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How can you criticize road riders? No group on the planet has so defiantly stood shoulder to shoulder through the years ,defending matching neon Lycra suits.
Not only that, think of the advances in medical science driven by road riders' insatiable demand for more and better drugs.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Every one of you "climbed" while wearing lycra in the 1980s. There are photos to prove it. I may have been wearing lycra then, but at least was on a bicycle, where it was appropriate. I was never dumb enough to climb while wearing lycra.
And we won't even go into a certain person's red underwear fetish.
Nyah nyah! So there!
ps Hoser, nice photos - they tell an effective story, that's been discussed upthread.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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I'm sure that we'd all draw the line at riding the gondola (if built) while wearing lycra. The horror! The horror!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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I think those three guys in the middle are holding hands.
But to get this thing back into the original ruts, has anyone been able to find out what, if any, thoughts the gondola owners have regarding mountain biking?
I know Hamish drools at the thought of a vast network of trails accessible from the top of the gondola, but I do wonder if this is likely. It sure would be wonderful if it happened, and obviously it can't happen if there's no gondola.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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It certainly can happen if there's no gondola. It already has happened. Hamish and his pals are already riding around up there. It probably wouldn't hurt if the road was brushed out a bit, but that's feasible with volunteers. There's an extensive network of 1980s era logging spurs in upper Shannon Creek, extending almost to Goat Ridge, which provide a good start, and IIRC some riders have continued from there into roads on the north side of Britannia Creek, and maybe down Goat Ridge to Petgill Lake etc.
A little birdie tells me that the proponents have applied for 84 hectares (= 200+ acres) of land in and around the upper terminal, going right across to the main access road. Which would allow them to lock it at that point if not below, which it is in their interests to do. If nothing else, to protect the upper terminal, but also to generate more traffic. It will also require agreement by the District of Squamish and the Ministry of Forests to open the road to public traffic at all.
Whether the proponents really care a fig about mountain biking trails, or hiking trails, is an open question. It might generate a bit more traffic, if they need it, and if/when someone (else) builds some trails. I wouldn't count on them doing much more than piggybacking on what's there already, and what others might build.
Edit: I'll donate $20 to a charity of your choice, for the first person to post a photo of gf climbing in lycra.
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Hoser
climber
vancouver
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Will mountain bikes be allowed up the Gondola?
We will certainly look at mountain biking as one of the potential activities that could be provided from the top terminal. There are many possible routes from the top that could include a spectacular ride over Goat Ridge down into Britannia Beach.We will review all the various activities that can be offered safely from the top terminal and will explore these options with key local stakeholders such as SORCA, Search & Rescue, Squamish Trails Society and others.
What will you do to prevent people from using the Gondola to access the backcountry who end up getting lost?
Education of the backcountry hazards outside of our ‘operating area’ will be a key part of our operating plan. Backcountry users will be reminded to be aware of the risks and have the sufficient education and equipment to perform self-rescue if required.
For Grouse mountain that means no downhill hiking and no accessing of back country terrain from their lifts
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Hoser
climber
vancouver
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If you ride the lift up then apparently you have to abide by their rules...
I still cant figure out why you continue to claim that the back roads are aldered in when in fact they are 2wd to the blockade and then just fine bike riding roads after that.
I agree this whole thing wont affect what I do at all, I just think its too bad that this is the route Squamish is going with regards to addressing the crowds that want to hike and enjoy Squamish
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Hoser
climber
vancouver
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Thats right, you are not allowed to hike down the grind.
Grouse is private property, its a little different than the park ski hills. They do not tolerate folks going out of bounds, I am aware of the difference between permanently closed and avy closed terrain.
The signs are still there in summer but I guess they dont care as much..dont know.
The roads leading to Cypress and Seymour are closed in winter outside of working hours so I would be worried that the gondola folks may do the same thing in the name of counter acting vandalism and such.
Why exactly do I feel its too bad...I just feel that there are better options for the outdoor capital of canada to pursue than gondolas. We all agree that this will not do anything for Squamish downtown, it will not alleviate backside trail pressure and it does not provide any new trails for the 4- 500 000 visitors who currently come to the park to hike and climb.
I think its short sighted and if they really wanted to improve the area they would look at what they already have. Underused trails from Slhany over all three peaks including a via ferratta, trails to sky pilot and cabin and trails to Habrich and onwards to Petgill.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Bruce, it would bother me, and apparently 800 or more other people, many living in Squamish. Given that it's only been a few weeks, probably many more.
The total number of signatures on petitions is now ~825. Allowing for duplications, 750 – 800 have expressed their support, including:
• On-Line: 465 (http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/squamishchief/);
• FaceBook: 128 (http://www.facebook.com/FriendsoftheSquamishChief);
• Paper petitions (Squamish, Vancouver): 235+ (A report yesterday from a 'remote' location proved incorrect, so we're about 250 fewer than we thought.)
There are additional signatures – some petitions haven’t yet been returned. We expect the number to rise in the near future, with petition signing initiatives in Squamish and elsewhere this weekend.
Our effort to gather public support has had only a few weeks, and indeed most signatures have been acquired in the last two weeks.
Approximately 15% of the signatures on the on-line petition are from residents of the Squamish area. However, signers include many from the USA, as well as from New Zealand (2), Norway (2), Argentina, Australia, and elsewhere. This underscores both that the park and its attributes are of international interest, and that there has been a failure to adequately consult with existing users of the park as to its fate. Putting it another way, the “local” community of the Stawamus Chief is world-wide.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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The muffin top, plumbers' crack, and lycra bulge problems had not previously come to the attention of the FOSC committee, and will be noted for discussion. There may be endangered species issues, too - possibly the peregrines moved to the Grand Wall area so as to see fewer unsightly tourists.
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Hoser
climber
vancouver
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Who ever owns it has made the rule...I dont why you cant hike down it.
Its here on the GVRD web page..grouse web page, signs and more signs all over that shitty hill
http://www.metrovancouver.org/region/grousegrind/Pages/default.aspx
I dont know why your making such a big deal out of it, I just think its a lame proposal and possibly setting a poor precedent for how we may treat our front country parks going forward.
I have stated my arguments in posts pasts and I have heard yours and we disagree. Not a big deal.
Whatever the outcome my wish is for the park to continue to expand and for folks to explore more of it, new trails and new routes.
Now I am off to the bar!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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I've worked as a volunteer with groups that help persons with disabilities, plus put together and ran a project that rebuilt the Yew Lake trail at Cypress Bowl, to make it more accessible. Not totally, but one of the more accessible mountain trails in B.C. I'm very aware of such issues. Given that I'm a modest climber (with much to be modest about..), and rather unathletic, I'm no elitist. A club that won't have me for a member. Plus I'm getting older and feebler...
Finding the right balance is difficult, to see that there are reasonable opportunities for access to our world, for all. (We're lucky we can afford such considerations.) In terms of the truly disabled - many older people, and the physically disabled - the project seems marginal. It faces fierce competition from Grouse and Whistler/Blackcomb, both of which seem superior locations and facilities. And unless such folk are guaranteed significant discounts, vague promises wouldn't amount to a lot anyway, given that many are on fixed incomes.
For those who simply lack the fitness to hike up and down the Chief, maybe there's a larger social issue around enabling their behaviour. It's a bit like driving children to school, when they could walk, and it would be better for them. There's no simple solution for such social problems, but it is after all a relatively modest hike, and there are other easier hikes and walks at the base, and in the Squamish area, with good views.
Also, too often access for the elderly/disabled is used as a wedge, to help justify developments of this kind. Sometimes they mean it, but show me the money, eh?
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flyingkiwi1
Trad climber
Seattle WA
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If your goals include accepting the world as it is, I think it's useful to recognize the irony in passing judgement on the judgemental.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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If your goals include accepting the world as it is, I think it's useful to recognize the irony in passing judgement on the judgemental.
Ian, you're forgetting the fundamental issue: If we don't pass judgement on the judgemental, who will? Somebody has to do it.
But more seriously, I think any discussion of making it easy for fat or old people misses the whole point Bruce was trying to make. Correct me if I'm wrong Bruce, but I think what you were talking about was latte-sucking Vancouver environmentalists assuming their vision of parks without people was somehow more worthy than Squamish gumbies' vision of a development that would help them. Nothing to do with making the high place accessible to the grossly obese.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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"parks without people"
There's close to 100,000 annual hikers days on the Chief - they have a counter. Probably half or more that number of climber days. There's no shortage of people - the shortage is of trails. Judging by responses we've been getting, the existing users aren't very happy about the proposal. It's hardly terra nullius.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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I've got to work on my obeseness, which I can't seem to attain no matter how hard I try, with a big bowl of cereal, between my fits of laughter. I'd give anything to put on 5 lbs.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Yes thats it. But in all the confusion I can't remember if I'm a latte sucking gumbie or a locally situated obese environmentalist.
The label doesn't matter. As long as you yell "Not In Your Back Yard" loudly and often, you'll be fine.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Hamish can have some of mine, too. It'll be metric, so much classier lard.
You guys should check out the following thread. You'd fit right in, not just on Friday nights.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1054430/The-Friday-Night-Posting-While-Drunk-Post
Rules:
1. Your current consumption
2. At least one inflammatory comment **
3. Why you are drunk and typing on McTopo instead of doing something worthwhile, like driving to the crag.
Perhaps the terra nullius comment was a little obscure, but it does reframe the discussion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius
It was the argument that was used to dispossess the natives in B.C., elsewhere in Canada, and around the world. The theory being that the land was empty, or at most populated by savages needing to be civilized. Kind of like the climbing and hiking savages at Squamish, perhaps. And really, just because the land's in a park, it's vacant, isn't it? That is, not being used for direct economic gain, whatever its other benefits to the world?
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