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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 18, 2011 - 12:50am PT
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So war, done any good climbs lately? 276 posts in a month, maybe ten on climbing threads, though few of substance, and another ten or twenty on non-climbing, non-political threads. It seems that you were rightly outed as troll early on.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oct 18, 2011 - 11:34am PT
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Where are your balls, Jeff.
I WILL put up $15K today to be held in a mutually agreeable account and holder.
You could not be in a better position right now, right now, to take my bet.
Obama is way down the polls and your Republicans are SO righteous.
Jeff, it does not get any better than this for you.
Show us all you are half the man I am.
$15,000 TODAY that Obama beats ANY evolution denying 13th century Republican and goes another four years.
Suck on it bitch.
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Oct 18, 2011 - 11:55am PT
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FYI - you can bet on the election over at sportsbook.com...currently Obama is a lock.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oct 18, 2011 - 11:56am PT
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Yeah, made a bundle betting on Obama in the Iowa Electronic Market in 08
Fattrad remains clueless
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Oct 18, 2011 - 01:17pm PT
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One of the Tea Party's and conservatives favorite targets is TARP (Troubled Assets Relief Package)
Signed by Shrub on 3 Oct 2008.
So how's TARP doing? And some of their beneficiaries:
from Wikipedia
The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008. It was a component of the government's measures in 2008 to address the subprime mortgage crisis.
Originally expected to cost the U.S. taxpayers as much as $300 billion,[1] by December 16, 2010, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated the total cost would be $19 billion,[2] although Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner argued that the final cost would be still lower.[3] This is significantly less than the taxpayers' cost of the savings and loan crisis of the late 1980s. The cost of that crisis amounted to 3.2 percent of GDP during the Reagan/Bush era, while the GDP percentage of the current crisis' cost is estimated at less than 1 percent.[4] While it was once feared the government would be holding companies like GM, AIG and Citigroup for several years, those companies are preparing to buy back the Treasury's stake and emerge from TARP within a year.[4] Of the $245 billion invested in U.S. banks, over $169 billion has been paid back, including $13.7 billion in dividends, interest and other income, along with $4 billion in warrant proceeds as of April 2010. AIG is considered "on track" to pay back $51 billion from divestitures of two units and another $32 billion in securities.[4] In March 2010, GM repaid more than $2 billion to the U.S. and Canadian governments and on April 21, GM announced the entire loan portion of the U.S. and Canadian governments' investments had been paid back in full, with interest, for a total of $8.1 billion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program
So GM has paid the loan all back with interest. US Govt still owns 27% and Canada 16%. GM earned $4.7 Billion in 2010. WSJ estimates the US tax subsidies to GM are worth $45 Billion over the next 20 years. That's $2.2Billion per year. $6 per year subsidy from everyone in the US. At least their 61,500 US employees are still employed. US employees were 91,000 when they declared bankruptcy. That's nearly 30,000 people who had to find work and were on unemployment for at least some time. Unemployment which has now run out. Their current worldwide employment is 209,000. So they employ more than 2 people overseas for every 1 in the US.
Good deal for the US Taxpayer?
BofA received $45 Billion. All paid back in Dec 2009. Last quarter's profit: $6.2 Billion. Do a little math: that's approx $20 profit for every man, woman and child in the US in 1 quarter. While the economy is tanking and unemployment is over 9% with no improvement this entire year. And they're going to lay off 10.5% - 30,000 employees and charge you $5 per month to use your ATM card for purchases.
CitiGroup received $45 Billion. All paid back by Dec 2010 with $12Billion profit for the US. However we're still guaranteeing more than $200 Billion in "troubled assets". So you and I aren't out of the woods yet. CitiGroup's cash in hand is $462 Billion, more than the GDP of Sweden. More than $1500 for every resident of the US. CitiGroup just reported $3.2 Billion profit for last quarter.
Wells Fargo received $25 Billion, all paid back by Dec 2009 with $132 Million profit to the US Treasury. Wells Fargo had $4.1 Billion net income las quarter.
So these three banks made $22 Billion last quarter. Nearly $70 profit for every man, woman, child and illegal immigrant in the US. That's what I call part of the top 1%. Excepting possibly Wells Fargo, these companies would likely be GONE if it weren't for TARP. How many more 10's of thousands would have been laid off?
How much will they pay in income tax? You'll have to read their year end balance sheets to find out.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Oct 18, 2011 - 01:34pm PT
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Oct 18, 2011 - 01:39pm PT
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^^^^^^
I had to read it 3X to get it.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Oct 18, 2011 - 01:42pm PT
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GOP= greed over people.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Oct 18, 2011 - 02:06pm PT
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fattrad
NOPE. And having anticipated that question I'd already decided to answer it with my own question: How much did those "little people's" stock appreciate in the last quarter?
I'll answer for BofA common stock (BAC): In the last three months, it's down about 40%. So the "little people" owning BAC in their pension plans are getting screwed. Especially if they're unemployed and having to draw them down early. The less they own of BOC the better in the past 3 months.
CitiGroup new common stock: C is only down 12% in the past 3 months.
Dow Jones Industrials down 15%. NASDAQ down 10%. Apple UP 5%
Over the last 6 months:
DOWJ down about 12%. NASDAQ down about 11%. Apple up about 20%
Shall I go on?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Oct 18, 2011 - 02:24pm PT
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fattrad: What's the matter? Is Bernie getting under yours and Kevin (McCarthy)'s skin? One progressive/socialist in a Senate with 4 Tea Party nuts? 62 nuts in the House Tea Party caucus, led by the Queen Nut Bachmann.
What's the matter? Are you afraid of a little democracy? Don't want any opposition voices? Especially when they have a grasp of the facts?
What's the matter with you Big Cheeses that Bernie scares you so much? Is he threatening your much desired "Republican Hegemony"? Do you resent him because he's the nearest to an Honest Politician we have? His points 3, 5 and 6 are all right on. The others, debatable.
fatty
If they're employed, hopefully they're long term investors. But when you're out of work and out of unemployment insurance you have to start selling your retirement assets. If they're short term investors, they don't have the time to do productive work. Presumably my stock fund managers are active traders. Lot of good they've done me.
The obvious (to most) point is that in the same period that these banks' common stock, and the stock market as a whole, has declined by as much as 1/6 of their value, the banks have made $Billion in profits, after (because of?) the TARP bailout. Also presumably the stock traders. Has YOUR income decreased by 1/6 in the last six months? I rather doubt it.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 18, 2011 - 02:25pm PT
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So Schrub gave 16 trillion to bail out the banks and nothing to the little people...? Don't worry those tax payer dollars will eventually sheckle back down to the little people..Be patient...RJ
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Oct 18, 2011 - 02:44pm PT
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i was thinking about Cain's 9-9-9 plan. i had this image of a bunch of idiots voting for him and liking his plan, being sold on his talk (which i find enertaining but filled with nonsense, kind of like a male sarah palin). anyway, these voters would be like thinking of a great meal (taxplan) that Cain had prepared for them and when they tasted it (ie: the impact to their pocketbooks) it of course tasted like crap.
wall street would be happy though.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
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Oct 18, 2011 - 05:19pm PT
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More than three years ago, Congress rewarded Wall Street with the biggest taxpayer bailout in the history of the world. Simultaneously but unknown to the American people at the time, the Federal Reserve provided an even larger bailout. The details of what the Fed did were kept secret until a provision in the Dodd-Frank Act that I sponsored required the Government Accountability Office to audit the Fed’s lending programs during the financial crisis.
As a result of this audit, the American people have learned that the Federal Reserve provided more than $16 trillion in low-interest loans to every major financial institution in this country, huge foreign banks, multi-national corporations, and some of the wealthiest people in the world. But none went to small businesses, not a single dime.
In other words, when Wall Street was on the verge of collapse, the federal government acted boldly, aggressively, and with a fierce sense of urgency to save our financial system from collapse with no strings attached.
Yes, the Tea Partiers protested this before it happened. Nobody listened. The OWS folk are the stupid ones who were for the bailouts but did not think anybody on Wall Street would take a bonus after them.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
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Oct 18, 2011 - 06:00pm PT
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Now that all gthe banks have become creatures feeding of the government, what the hell do they need with the customers for? The Governemnt is 100% sewcure, but contract, and the customers are something less than that. A bank can make more money off a 0% loan than they EVER did on ALL their customers.
Bankers got NO incentive to EVER deal with customers, except for getting 20% on existing credit card loan balances...
... the whole damn industry has changed completely, and NO regulations apply to the new industry at all.
There are (and were) plenty of Regulations, and Dodd-Frank nearly doubled them. But if the incentives are distorted, regulations are worthless. Even useful regulations will usually have some workaround.
How did we get to the point where banks don't WANT people's deposits? This should be a wake up call that there is something severely wrong with Monetary policy.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 18, 2011 - 06:01pm PT
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2012 Presidential Election Winner from intrade:
Obama 50%
Romney 33%
Perry 6%
Cain 4%
Sorry right wingers.
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Jorroh
climber
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Oct 18, 2011 - 08:07pm PT
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Fattrad.."Bernie Sanders, another looney case. Kevin is actively searching for a candidate to take out that whack job."
nice ad hominem there Fattrad. I await your insightful point by point refutation, i know a smart guy like yourself would never just start calling people names for no reason.
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