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Woody the Beaver
Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
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Uh . . . Well, I'm grateful for another day. Crusty, sardonic mofos rule! Love them meetings.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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It is FINE if you have the mindset you referred to, but you are in a group of agnostics and aetheists among those who have any number of spiritual paths. This is not a "Sobriety by Scriptures" thread -to create animosity, here, is NOT in the interest of the whole.
From: The First Edition Big Book Stories (http://www.barefootsworld.net/origbbstories.html#drbob);
THE DOCTOR'S NIGHTMARE (by Bob Smith,M.D. from Akron,OH.)
"If you think you are an atheist, an agnostic, a skeptic,or have any other form of intellectual pride which keeps you from accepting what is in this book, I feel sorry for you. If you still think you are strong enough to beat the game alone,that is your affair. But if you really and truly want to quit drinking liquor for good and all, and sincerely feel that you must have some help,we know that we have an answer for you. It never fails if you go about it with one half the zeal you have been in the habit of showing when getting another drink.
Your Heavenly Father will never let you down!"
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Pillowattack
Boulder climber
DC
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First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you will see clearly enough to remove the speck from your brother's eye
He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know.
Lao Tzu
This thread is about support - let's not railroad it into a religious debate. Love and respect for everyone walking their path
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Illusion Dweller - THIS thread is not an AA thread, or any program in particular. I would be getting the very same reaction as you have been, if I was spouting "AA is the Way!" and other such things. Proselytizing just does not work here, or in most places.
I've not heard of the program you linked, and am going to take a look. I am glad it is helping you, but it may help to keep in mind, just as the bible says 'there are many rooms in my mansion(or similar), there are, too, many paths to a sober life. There is an art to sharing your experience, strength and hope(to borrow from AA) - "My way or the high way"(literally, here!) shuts the door on your words faster than one on a traveling salesman's foot."
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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delusion iller,
your mouth is like the wall of sound (google grateful dead)
i have a 6000 word per minute threshold
after which i don't hear a gawdam thing
issuing of the largest hole in your face.
mute yourself, kindly.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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A rewarding attitude is "moderation in all things". Especially sobriety and chastity.
no more destructive words have been spoken.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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happiegrrrl....I'm sitting outside my son's school as we speak, waiting to pick him up, where I first saw this very sign, in this very spot, over five years ago:
...it changed my life. God Bless.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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a very worthwhile thread.
Yes it is...Glory to God.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Humility is the basis of recovery, that and trying to find a divine direction not supplied by our egos, but instead informed by a higher power. When we declare what the higher power is, and how we best follow this or that protocol or program, we have surly lost out way and are right back to trying to orchestrate the world's recovery. Such behavior is known as being on a "dry drunk," the earmarks being something other than humility and surrender. Then a drink is right around the corner for many of us . . .
Tolerance is crucial to recovery, IMO, no matter the program.
JL
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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We already know about all the faith-based programs, Gary, but thanks for playing. Sorry if most of us are not interested in your Baptist churchs' fundamentalist version of redemption. In fact, I'm guessing most of us are repulsed. As a general rule, I don't listen to fat white male fundies in ill-fitting suits who divide their time between railing against female reproductive rights, multi-culturalism, and gun-control measures:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Your God is not our God, so please stop attempting to ram It down our throats. OH NO! HE HAD A PONYTAIL DOWN TO HIS WAIST AND HAD BEEN FAR AWAY FROM GOD!!
Ponytails, man. The root of all evil.
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Pillowattack
Boulder climber
DC
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There are people from every possible background that get sober, from atheists to fundamentalists. If you are sober and happy that is what matters. I know a lot of sober people and none have told me that I need to believe what they do to stay sober.
"Don't blindly believe what I say. Don't believe me because others convince you of my words. Don't believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don't rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don't infer or be deceived by appearances."
"Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion."
"Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real. Discover that there are virtuous things and there are non-virtuous things. Once you have discovered for yourself give up the bad and embrace the good."
 The Buddha
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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There are people from every possible background that get sober, from atheists to fundamentalists. If you are sober and happy that is what matters. I know a lot of sober people and none have told me that I need to believe what they do to stay sober.
"Don't blindly believe what I say. Don't believe me because others convince you of my words. Don't believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don't rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don't infer or be deceived by appearances."
"Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion."
"Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real. Discover that there are virtuous things and there are non-virtuous things. Once you have discovered for yourself give up the bad and embrace the good."
The Buddha
It sounds like the Buddha didn't need anybody but himself to get through his strongholds, which I'm sure he had. God forbid.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Read it Bob, come on Robert, read it...you decide who Buddha is relying on. Any addict, including myself, can tell you where their brilliant thinking got them.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Not sure which one of your mutiple Supertopo identities I should reply to Gary. Illusiondweller? Digitsdelight? Truthdweller? Fredrick?
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Have another one Bob, you're doing well, I'm watching your time.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Geez Gary, how about you not being a weird-assed multiple personality pathological liar? You've been called out on this so many times it's embarrasing.
from http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1175586&msg=1176824#msg1176824
Fredrick (aka Truthdweller/Digitsdelight/Illsiondweller/Gary) wrote:
Speaking of rating "creep"...I always called General Dynamics 5.10c and have ben back on it twice since 2007 and can't seem to repeat it! Am I that fat now or was I that much better twenty five years ago? Then again, it is now rated 5.11 which seems to explain why I'm having a difficult time on it now. I'm going to lean more on the former than the latter.
aww man, you two have lots more than that in common! ID, when did you move from NJ back to SD? Seems you both climbed at Woodson in the early eighties, moved to NJ, served in Iraq at a bit of an advanced age, and then simultaneously move back to SD! That's amazing! |
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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bvb, please stop this. I've seen you do this on many threads, and you always do more harm then good. I understand your intention, but this is NOT what this thread is for.
This is not the place for you to play Internet Ranger, OK? This is a very serious topic for those of us fighting this disease, and it's managed to stay clear of the ST cesspool until now, for the most part.
The more you feel you HAVE to post, the more HE posts, and the thread gets destroyed. Walk away from this and do us all a favor.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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That's no way to talk to an American Legend.
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