Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Dec 22, 2013 - 09:29pm PT
|
"The average out-of-pocket cost of ACL reconstruction is $2,339.43, according to a 2010 survey of ACL surgery patients."
That was before Obamacare.
That "average" sounds awful similar what Obama was promising would be your discount.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Dec 22, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
|
Mr Hyatt writes:
"I personally know many families who work in my industry who were unable to afford insurance till now. And they're now paying the same % of their income for it as you are."
Are we to believe a smart guy like Obama actually really thought we could cover the previously un-insurable, and it would cost less money? I say he knew he was lying to us when he was lying.
I can understand a bunch of voters being duped into believing something so illogical. That's why I don't believe any of this would ever have been passed without the lies used to sell it.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Dec 22, 2013 - 09:47pm PT
|
Health care would be better if we spent less money on it?
Maybe education would improve too, if we spent less money on that.
The infrastructure would be better if we didn't spend so much money on it, wouldn't it?
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
|
Dec 22, 2013 - 09:50pm PT
|
I personally know many families who work in my industry who were unable to afford insurance till now. And they're now paying the same % of their income for it as you're complaining about
Therein lies the problem. 50% of ones annual income to perform a routine knee surgery is nor reasonable.
I am better off not carrying insurance, saving my money and trying to negotiate with the surgeon/ hospital.
Either way it is unaffordable( think personal bankruptcy).
Obamacare fixes nothing and makes it worse off for those that managed to get by under the old system.
Classic example of a law pushed through( for ego and political reasons) before it was ready for implementation.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Dec 22, 2013 - 09:51pm PT
|
Having poor people show up at the ER with no insurance is the least cost-efficient method of providing them with health care. Every other comparably developed democracy pays half as much for twice the coverage we do because of this basic, simple fact.
what?
are you serious?
are you telling me that when poor people actually have insurance that doctors and hospitals get paid and paid fast for their services?
Impossible, has to be, somehow, I don't know how,
Now you are getting into actual healthcare policy and away from hating Obama
quit doing that
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
|
Dec 22, 2013 - 09:57pm PT
|
Will the "poor" benefit from Obamacare?
Will they sign up for Obamacare? Not sure that they have at the rate that was forecasted.
If they do, will the middle class and the folks in their 20/30's be agreeable to subsidize them?
My guess is NO, but we will see.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Dec 22, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
|
Three grand is about what it cost me to get a TPLO done on a Labrador Retriever.
That was about four years ago. Before Obamacare!
Why would anyone take the trouble to be MD when DVM makes the same money?
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Dec 22, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
|
Three grand to fix a torn ACL sounds reasonable to me.
How do you figure "Like I said - health insurance costs too much because health care costs too much", when ACL surgery costs about the same as a boob job?
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
|
Dec 22, 2013 - 10:24pm PT
|
Normal, routine ACL surgery averages around $3k
So, you are quoting me $3000 for a reconstruction of my knee? You seem to be an expert? You are quoting the "internet" because that is so accurate.
Last time around, the anesthesiologist bill was around 12 or 13K. The bill for the surgery center/facility charge was north of $60K. My insurance refused to cover it and tried to bill me direct. The surgeons fee was a different line item.
I apparently signed for it when I signed to 50 pages of documents when I checked in day of surgery.
Insurance finally cut the 60K check. Really...they sent me a check for 60K in MY NAME and I endorsed it to the insurance co.
If you are offering an ACL reconstruction for 3K, dude I will take you up on it as long as you are qualified. F*** anesthesia or the sterile surgery center , just give me a CREDIT CARD.
The problem with ACA is that it will prove to be unaffordable for those that make 0-$50k beyond the subsidy qualification level.
This is the heart of the tax paying community. Self employment no longer makes sense. I guess, I need to find a corporate job again.....of course Obamacare will eventually hit the employer market, or will it?
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Dec 22, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
|
Enrollments through the exchanges are rapidly increasing, now over three million have insurance
pisses you off to see your fellow Americans getting healthcare, eh sparky?
but the important thing is that Rand Paul will be the Republican nominee for President in 2016
because you guys are dumb enough to believe that McCain and Romney lost to the black guy because they were not "conservative enough"
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
|
Dec 22, 2013 - 11:20pm PT
|
I haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. $12k for anesthesia for knee surgery? You really expect anyone to believe that? Where are you having this done - Beverly Hills? In a room paneled with gold leaf?
I could care less what a non sensical blow hard like yourself thinks, it is reality. Front range of Colorado...cheaper than mountain town home.
Stay healthy bro...if not you will be in for a big surprise.
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
|
Dec 23, 2013 - 12:07am PT
|
Complains about paying more for health care for no discernible reason, and is subsequently taken advantage of by providers that don't charge competitive rates...then blames it on...who else...Obama
Never once blamed it on Obama. Blame it on a flawed ACA.
Good luck hedge....I mean Hyatt.
Hyatts first ST post on Dec 12....hmmmm
Multiple post on threads that Hedgy was active on. JH.....Nice...
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Dec 23, 2013 - 12:09am PT
|
"Good luck hedge....I mean Hyatt."
Good eye.
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
|
Dec 23, 2013 - 12:17am PT
|
Crickets...chirp chirp
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
|
Dec 23, 2013 - 12:39am PT
|
Well it is a law that is growing in unpopularity.
I see it self destructing at the detriment of the American populace....for the benefit of what?
Maybe certain politicians egos got a big bump there for awhile.
Honeymoon is over....unfortunately. Improved healthcare is a noble goal.
Screwing the American people while improving the profitability of health care giants and special interests should get our leaders some sort of award?
Don't you think so Hedge?
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Dec 23, 2013 - 02:02am PT
|
We're pretty close - a few more election cycles, and they're gone.
Definitely Hedge. He's floated this same line, cast the exact same way, in virtually every polithread. Won't be long now before he stops sounding even remotely "nice" and kicks back into his typical foul-mouthed, abusive tirades. The phrase "fvcking idiot" is soon to appear.
Fixing things always always, always...always proves more expensive than allowing them to continue to be dysfunctional. Adults, as a rule, accept this, and fix them.
Not true, and obviously not true. I'll cite just one single example, and in my field there are countless.
If my company allows a computer system to remain dysfunctional, it costs the customer more (and us FAR more) in the short to medium term; and it costs a LOT more to lose a customer (the medium to long-term result) over that dysfunction than to solve the problem! The more severe the dysfunction (and Hedge claims that the pre-Obumblecare health care system was very, very severely dysfunctional), the more the dysfunction/fixing cost disparity increases (with continued dysfunction costing more).
I'm sure there are countless examples in industry (autos, for example) and other IT fields. Just see how much fixing the cause of the oil pressure light coming on (adding oil to correct its level) compares to the cost of ignoring that light.
So, this thread can continue to argue the long-term merits of Obumblecare (and, I'm sure, will), and I'm not speaking to that (at present, fruitless) debate. Time will tell the whole truth on that front.
I'm just calling the lie on Hedge's claim about the costs of fixing versus continued dysfunction. "Always, always... always" is yet another obviously false Hedge claim.
At least now he's FINALLY starting to admit that the significantly increased costs are real. Couldn't get that out of him a couple of months ago! Of course, now he's acting like this was just to be expected all along. It wasn't, and there is already significant backlash. There will be more.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Dec 23, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
|
Hahahahaha - you're a lying, pathetic piece of sh#t.
Hahahahaha -- Just one post later, and the truth is revealed. Oh, well, the next wave of banning is on the horizon.
It's whack-a-mole....
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
|
Dec 23, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
|
once we get rid of the repub party
Hyatt... please don't hold your breath.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Dec 23, 2013 - 09:32pm PT
|
Despite my possibly deserved reputation this is a serious question. It seems
like for yonks we've been told that there are 40 million uninsured Americans.
If so then why have only 1 million signed up for the ACA? The other 39 million
prefer being uninsured?
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Dec 23, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
|
Reilly, it's actually more goofy than even the sign-up numbers (whatever their validity might be) indicate. A number of credible articles (including from otherwise left-leaning sources, such as the NY Times and this one I'm citing from the Washington Post) report that the vast majority of "sign-ups" are really just applying for the expanded Medicaid programs:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/31/in-first-month-the-vast-majority-of-obamacare-sign-ups-are-in-medicaid/
What's worse is that many states did not buy into the federal "urging" to expand Medicaid, which means that many of the "sign-ups" have not actually ended up with any coverage out of the process, because they have simply fallen into the Medicaid gap.
So, the figures touted by the Obumble administration of "successful sign-ups" are really completely disingenuous, as this administration surely knows what is now widely reported: Most of the people using the sign-up process are not actually ending up with new Obumblecare insurance.
It is now becoming clearer by the day that Obumblecare is not solving anything for tens of millions of the "poor" previously uninsured; it is only screwing over millions of the middle class that were previously satisfied with both their coverage and the cost of it. There will be backlash.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!