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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Apr 26, 2013 - 03:02am PT
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"What is Red pointin' at?????????"
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Apr 26, 2013 - 09:23am PT
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I don't know how to break this to younDingus. Freddy has been reabsorbed by the power of the trad
"It's been a long strange trip but I'm back, and I'm beautiful! Tell dingus that no matter what he drills for me I ain't goin' sport no more!"
It seems it was the invert move on Serrator that set him back on the path.
Seen here in the desert, where he traded his draws and grigri for the tub of cams below. He quit his job, and mumbled something about spotting Alex on free solos.....
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 10:45am PT
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But, is she TRAD?
Or to put it another way:
Does She or Doesn't She?
(Tagline from a 70s Clairol hair coloring commercial)
picture from a NOLS postcard I just received in the mail
Reilly, take notice here, this is your new trad poster boy counterpart.
No doubt she can help you upgrade your knot tying skills … just check out those sweet little shoelace backups for her flagging socks!
Aspiring Trad Heads please LISTEN UP:
CURRENT CHANGES TO THE RULES OF TRAD
Modern gear climbers like to wear packs while leading; no worries.
 But from now on, to earn and keep the respected mantle of trad, climbers MUST wear the vintage Kelty frame style pack modeled in the photo above! No exceptions!
In addition, concerning socks, well by golly they must be worn.
And more importantly: the little string thingies are now mandatory! No exceptions!
Rules of Trad spoken right here, right now and forever!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 11:27am PT
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Right then, back to serious business!
Court is now in session, in service of the continued ruling over the current status of TRAD!
Gavel down … Bonk Bonk!
SPECIAL REPORT:
His Royal Tarness has just returned from Safari down in Indian Creek,
Where he engaged in serious investigative reporting and critical fact checking concerning the matter.
Full disclosure ... alcohol may have been ... er ... was involved:
Granted, as MH2 pointed out, there is little difference between Smith Rock and Indian Creek in terms of crowding and overall impact.
Glad we settled that can of worms and I'm happy all of you spent some time on the trampoline hashing out any environmental distinctions between trad and sport.
Well done and thank you ladies and gentlemen for that earnest work!
BUT to my FINDINGS!
I now present to you Northern Arizona climbers Dave Bloom, Bosco, John and Joel:
Dave Bloom, author of the Indian Creek guidebook, known on supertopo as: The Doctor, 49 years old.
Bosco, rescue dog and Flagstaff climber, age unknown.
John, Flagstaff climber, 25 years old.
Joel, Flagstaff climber, 29 years old.
So I asked the younger gentleman: what do you guys know of trad?
What does the current generation know of trad?
(all quotes paraphrased in accordance with my notes)
John, 25-year-old climber:
"Well, my dad was a trad climber so I know all about it. Mainly I climb sport, but I also climb trad and will be targeting things in the 12+ and 13 minus range here for the next three or four days. My focus won't necessarily be ground-up trad climbing, although I'll try some stuff ground-up on-site, however, I may also be head pointing and using a sport climbing approach to include aid inspection or top roping or whatever."
Joel, 29-year-old climber:
"I think since we are Northern Arizona climbers we know more about trad than they may in other areas. We use all styles, but I definitely like to climb things on site ground-up whenever possible. I climb up to 12- trad on-site and if I fail on something like a 12+ I like to come back and red point. Meaning I like to replace all my gear on subsequent attempts. Gear climbing and trad climbing are probably synonymous to most climbers these days; but we do get the difference in Northern Arizona. No aiding or pink pointing for a valid trad ascent in Northern Arizona. Most 18 to 21-year-olds probably just call it gear climbing and don't understand trad. I'd guess out of all modern climbers, about 10% understand trad for what it is."
Dave Bloom, 49 year old climber:
In 2003 Mr. Bloom on-site flashed the regular route on Half Dome, except for beta he'd received concerning the last pitch. He told me it's all just climbing. Or he tried too … Frankly, I interrupted him because I deemed him too old and experienced to reflect what the younger generations know.
In short I tossed out Mr. Bloom's testimony because he knows too much! I'm kind of a dick that way; but it's how I roll, YO.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 11:47am PT
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Right then,
Let's please all hold hands and respectfully move on to Exhibit A.
Joel's on-site flash of Steve Hong's wunnerful "Family Home Night" … Simply rated 5.12.
Okay, first order of business, some things have changed!
For instance, young climbers who may also climb trad now use all-new-and-improved hand signals:
EXHIBIT A
Joel methodically ticking off Family Home, 5.12, April 19, 2013:
What Is Trad?
I submit to you: This Is Trad!
Okay okay okay, so he didn't walk off the back and he doesn't rack on a sling. I know.
But remember, the definition of trad is not hard and fast; no, just a set of fuzzy book-ended guidelines.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 12:25pm PT
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And so, as an aside ... a personal matter really,
Joel is my new Trad Hero, be it as it may that he's just a modern climber who also climbs trad.
Full disclosure: it used to be Pat Kingsbury, but I haven't seen him for a while and Joel is the new thing. I'm kind of a slut that way.
Dig:
Young climbers usually look to older climbers for their heroes.
While old climbers often look to young climbers in search of heroes.
That's just kind of the way it slopes out. Trust me on this one!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Apr 26, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
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Only her belayer knows for sure....
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
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hahahahahaha
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Apr 26, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
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What Is Trad?
I submit to you: This Is Trad!
So, a trip to IC and suddenly TRAD is chalk highways, gear-beta, grades and names written on rocks in chalk, and chain anchors. Awesome.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Apr 26, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
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Do you pop the balloons at other kids' birthday parties?
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Apr 26, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
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Absolutely.
The climbers he interviewed are obviously trads, and quite accomplished ones, but not by the Yos Rockmaster, olskool, OG, definition.
It is time to broaden the word.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
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Just think: Classic Rock in the music genre.
These guys aren't simply and only Trads; they play other, er ... progressive styles ... underground psychedelia & etc..
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Apr 26, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
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Kinda Techno / Jamband....
So Compton, are you eluding to a granfalloon you presume to speak for?
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Apr 26, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 07:48pm PT
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Glad you are enjoying it DMT!
Perhaps the distinguishing feature here and I am with Warbler on this, is that subsequent generations know quite well what classic rock was and is. Likewise, they don't try or even want to say that their modern musical forms are to be defined as classic rock.
Pretty much the same with the young Arizonans whom I met this weekend: for example, within 3 min. my query was clearly answered by them. They know what trad is and they know when they are engaging in tactics which have moved beyond trad. They don't then call that trad. They also know the term is nearly anachronistic but they still know exactly what it means in terms of route opportunities and actions.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 07:53pm PT
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If modern climbers, through some slow accretion of various tactics want to change the face of trad and completely redefine the term, then of course we can't change that here.
But, here's why and how it can be important or desirable to leave the definition more or less intact: from Alpinist 42, an excerpt from an article called Homage, by Brandon Pullan:
"To learn to climb here, I needed to turn to the elders … History wasn't just a lesson about the past, but a means to create the future."
The Arizona boys totally get this. They understand the usefulness of the distinction of the basic definition of Trad. It is useful to them because they aspire to its product.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
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The elusive definition of Trad!
Be … the chaos, embrace … the wonder!
First ascent, no-name crack, Supercrack Buttress, 1983
Primrose Dihedrals, 1983
West Face of Castleton, early 1990s
West Face of Castleton, early 1990s
Ponders of Persuasion, Bridger Jack, 1994
Ponders of Persuasion, Bridger Jack, 1994
We rappeled from a previously fixed two bolt anchor some ways above the spot in the last picture, retreating from snowstorm.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 08:30pm PT
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Patrick Compton asserted:
So, a trip to IC and suddenly TRAD is chalk highways, gear-beta, grades and names written on rocks in chalk, and chain anchors. Awesome.
The pictures in the above post depict a range of activities in which I'd been involved during the 80s and 90s in and around Indian Creek. When Alan Roberts and I did no-name crack on Supercrack Buttress in 1983, I drilled a 3/8 inch bolt and a hole which I filled with a baby angle. There is nothing new about anchors at the top of climbs in that location.
I started climbing in 1974 on Goldline and in red PA's. When I arrived in Yosemite Valley in 1977, chalk highways, gear-beta through oral tradition, and fixed anchors at the tops of short free climbs were all in observance.
Nothing sudden about these attributes of Trad.
And I'll go you one more: route names have been traditionally etched in small stones at the base of routes in Indian Creek for over 20 years. Yikes. Leave no trace takes a hit there! It's only an aspiration and an ideal.
There are two basic kinds of trolls Patrick: those that elicit humor and add to the fun for all and those which are designed to overwork the opponent. You've been doing both. For an example of the former: the video you posted was actually pretty funny! But now the link is private: can you please fix this and/or make it public for us?
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