Video of Missile Hitting the Pentagon?

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monolith

climber
Sep 8, 2011 - 03:35pm PT
Is it possibly to even read this without starting to laugh? How stupid can a human be?

They sure love their pulverized concrete don't they, Raymond?

They seem to forget about all the drywall too.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Sep 8, 2011 - 03:41pm PT
who knows what he teaches....alien space craft physics, 911 conspiracy....yes, it would be fun....so long as impressionable students dont actually believe in all that stuff.

i am sure that he is a sincere guy, just terribly misguided.
raymond phule

climber
Sep 8, 2011 - 03:45pm PT

You are almost purely a political troll. Don't feel bad, I think of several here as mostly GOP B-team cheerleaders.

Do you remember and or understand anything you read? I am not sure that I have a single political post here on supertopo and you call me a political troll? GOP? I believe there are many "believers" that is definitely not republicans. Do you believe that believing in nutty theories is a question about politics?
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Sep 8, 2011 - 03:49pm PT
raymond,

for some reason RJ thinks if you believe (most of) the official version of 911 that you must also be a republican. i am sure that is out there in one of those truther web sites somewhere....
monolith

climber
Sep 8, 2011 - 04:02pm PT
Mostly OT threads RockJox. Not that many political threads.

Nothing like all the political threads you are on RJ.

Sounds like you don't want to deal with the issues he brings up.
raymond phule

climber
Sep 8, 2011 - 04:02pm PT

I looked through your past posts, and almost all of them are on political/ot threads.

So what is my political views? Can you find them? All off topic threads is not about politics. I believe I have posted quite a lot about meteorology in the contrail thread. I also believe that I have posted quite a lot about global warming. No politics if I remember correctly.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Sep 8, 2011 - 04:24pm PT
Why do building codes require structural steel girders to be fire-proofed?


Steel loses strength when heated sufficiently. The critical temperature of a steel member is the temperature at which it cannot safely support its load. Building codes and structural engineering standard practice defines different critical temperatures depending on the structural element type, configuration, orientation, and loading characteristics. The critical temperature is often considered the temperature at which its yield stress has been reduced to 60% of the room temperature yield stress.[6] In order to determine the fire resistance rating of a steel member, accepted calculations practice can be used,[7] or a fire test can be performed, the critical temperature of which is set by the standard accepted to the Authority Having Jurisdiction, such as a building code. In Japan, this is below 400°C. In China, Europe and North America (e.g., ASTM E-119), this is approximately 1000–1300F[8]. The time it takes for the steel element that is being tested to reach the temperature set by the test standard determines the duration of the fire-resistance rating. Heat transfer to the steel can be slowed by the use of fireproofing materials, thus limiting steel temperature. Common fireproofing methods for structural steel include intumescent, endothermic and plaster coatings as well as drywall, calcium silicate cladding, and mineral or high temperature insulation mineral wool blanket.
Concrete building structures often meet code required fire-resistance ratings, as the concrete thickness over the steel rebar provides sufficient fire resistance. However, concrete can be subject to spalling, particularly if it has an elevated moisture content. Although additional fireproofing is not often applied to concrete building structures, it is sometimes used in traffic tunnels and locations where a hydrocarbon fuel fire is more likely, as flammable liquid fires provides more heat to the structural element as compared to a fire involving ordinary combustibles during the same fire period. Structural steel fireproofing materials include intumescent, endothermic and plaster coatings as well as drywall, calcium silicate cladding, and mineral or high temperature insulation wool blankets. Attention is given to connections, as the thermal expansion of structural elements can compromise fire-resistance rated assemblies.


Seven-story John W. Bressmer Co. department store at 613 E. Adams in Springfield, Illinois. Burned on May 2, 1948.

Steel girders on the sixth floor of the Bressmer building lie in a heap, twisted by the intense heat of the fire.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Sep 8, 2011 - 04:36pm PT
This page that Klimmer linked to is truly amazing:

http://firefightersfor911truth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/revised2summary_of_evidence1.pdf

How can you folks deny the stuff that's in here, it's beyond me.


It brings tears to my eyes reading this. I simply don't understand how folks can honestly ignore these things. Do you read what the firemen were saying?? they died in the line of duty, and all you can do is throw f*#king names around.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Sep 8, 2011 - 04:42pm PT

The two aircraft hit the towers at high speed and did considerable damage to principal structural components (core columns, floors, and perimeter columns) that were directly impacted by the aircraft or associated debris. However, the towers withstood the impacts and would have remained standing were it not for the dislodged insulation (fireproofing) and the subsequent multi-floor fires. The robustness of the perimeter frame-tube system and the large size of the buildings helped the towers withstand the impact. The structural system redistributed loads from places of aircraft impact, avoiding larger scale damage upon impact. The hat truss, a feature atop each tower which was intended to support a television antenna, prevented earlier collapse of the building core. In each tower, a different combination of impact damage and heat-weakened structural components contributed to the abrupt structural collapse.

In WTC 1, the fires weakened the core columns and caused the floors on the south side of the building to sag. The floors pulled the heated south perimeter columns inward, reducing their capacity to support the building above. Their neighboring columns quickly became overloaded as columns on the south wall buckled. The top section of the building tilted to the south and began its descent. The time from aircraft impact to collapse initiation was largely determined by how long it took for the fires to weaken the building core and to reach the south side of the building and weaken the perimeter columns and floors.

In WTC 2, the core was damaged severely at the southeast corner and was restrained by the east and south walls via the hat truss and the floors. The steady burning fires on the east side of the building caused the floors there to sag. The floors pulled the heated east perimeter columns inward, reducing their capacity to support the building above. Their neighboring columns quickly became overloaded as columns on the east wall buckled. The top section of the building tilted to the east and to the south and began its descent. The time from aircraft impact to collapse initiation was largely determined by the time for the fires to weaken the perimeter columns and floor assemblies on the east and the south sides of the building. WTC2 collapsed more quickly than WTC 1 because there was more aircraft damage to the building core, including one of the heavily loaded corner columns, and there were early and persistent fires on the east side of the building, where the aircraft had extensively dislodged insulation from the structural steel.

The WTC towers likely would not have collapsed under the combined effects of aircraft impact damage and the extensive, multi-floor fires that were encountered on September11, 2001, if the thermal insulation had not been widely dislodged or had been only minimally dislodged by aircraft impact.
In the absence of structural and insulation damage, a conventional fire substantially similar to or less intense than the fires encountered on September 11, 2001, likely would not have led to the collapse of a WTC tower.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Sep 8, 2011 - 04:50pm PT
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Sep 8, 2011 - 04:52pm PT
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Sep 8, 2011 - 05:32pm PT
GC,

i particularly like this sentance.....

Asbestos contains fire, cannot burn and holds up after metal and glass have melted down, giving vital time for people to escape.

unfortunately, in the case of WTC, the steel members DID melt down and since that was the structure it fell. doesnt help much to have fireproof walls in a skyrise when your structure is suceptible to fire damage.

from wiki:
[edit] FireproofingIn April 1970, the New York City Department of Air Resources ordered contractors building the World Trade Center to stop the spraying of asbestos as an insulating material.[13]

Fireproofing was incorporated in the original construction and more was added after a fire in 1975 that spread to six floors before being extinguished. After the 1993 bombing, inspections found fireproofing to be deficient. The Port Authority was in the process of replacing it, but replacement had been completed on only 18 floors in 1 WTC, including all the floors affected by the aircraft impact and fires,[14] and on 13 floors in 2 WTC, although only three of these floors (77, 78, and 85) were directly affected by the aircraft impact.[15][note 2] and that the fireproofing was being replaced due to its asbestos content, in fact the builders had been informed of a proposed ban on using asbestos/vermiculite fireproofing during construction and had ceased using it.

nowadays, we use cementicious and intumescent firecoatings on large steel structures. We also tend to coat more of the members (in some instances ALL).
monolith

climber
Sep 8, 2011 - 05:37pm PT
Debunked many times now Rox. Furlong mixed up 'record start time' with 'event time'. Now he's a debunker. You boyz sure cling to your bombs in the basement theory.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Sep 8, 2011 - 05:41pm PT
rox is not on today. i think he was sad to have to evict some folks. he may come of as having no heart but inside he is probably a kind, sensitive human being. plus i thought we debuinked that siesmograph like two years ago?
monolith

climber
Sep 8, 2011 - 05:42pm PT
We did. They keep chasing their tails.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Sep 8, 2011 - 05:50pm PT
This page that Klimmer linked to is truly amazing:

http://firefightersfor911truth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/revised2summary_of_evidence1.pdf

How can you folks deny the stuff that's in here, it's beyond me.


It brings tears to my eyes reading this. I simply don't understand how folks can honestly ignore these things. Do you read what the firemen were saying?? they died in the line of duty, and all you can do is throw f*#king names around.


Kman,

Bingo. You really can't ignore all the evidence if you're truly an honest observer and researcher.

Unfortunately, we have a platoon of dishonest observers and OCT believers and Truth debunkers here at ST. All they do all day every day is name call and support the full US gov OCT completely no matter what. No matter that it has been invalidated from all directions with overwhelming evidence. Like others have said, you truly have to be nuts to really believe Uncle Sam's OCT. I mean really nuts.

That pdf study is really good. I'm going to try to work my way through all the links. Hopefully, not too many have changed.

The personal eye-witness testimonies with their names, these are professionals, and with their professional observations on site, their testiomony is beyond dispute. Really. And there is more than enough visual, audio, and physical evidence to back them up. The evidence that 9-11 was LIHOP and MIHOP is overwhelming. Bold lies continiously. And the willful denial to continue to believe it, is just really unbelievable in addition.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Sep 8, 2011 - 05:55pm PT
I don't believe anything,

Dingus,

Really? C'mon.

You don't even believe the truth?

You do believe in something, whatever it is.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Sep 8, 2011 - 05:58pm PT
How do they keep the next glass box in the sky from collapsing... that is one of the great lingering questions of this whole thing, yes?


that is some stuff i dont know. but you are corrent in surmising with regards to inadequate fire protection design for WTC. I do not think that all the critical members were protected. also, keep in mind that todays computational tools for structures is so far beyond what was even available 25 years ago that structure analysis has taken on a whole new meaning and we can determine the impacts of fires/fire protections, etc. much better than we could BITD.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Sep 8, 2011 - 05:59pm PT
klimmer,
you seem a decent guy, but those aliens have been talkin at you to much buddy....
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 8, 2011 - 06:02pm PT
The B-25 that hit the Empire State Building weighed 1/10 of a 767 and carried less than 1/10 the amount of fuel and hit at about 1/4 the speed.
I bet the outcome would have been similar had a 767 hit it at Mach .82.
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