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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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suap - go pull on your pud. that is what your name is about right? oh, can't find it? right....
and on the conspiracy theory topic, here is a good read...
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/osama-bin-laden-evidence-al-qaeda-considered-911/story?id=13536789
"As of February 2010, al-Qa'ida was allegedly contemplating conducting an operation against trains at an unspecified location in the United States on the 10th anniversary of September 11, 2001," the document reads, using an alternate spelling for bin Laden's terror group. "As one option, al-Qa'ida was looking into trying to tip a train by tampering with the rails so that the train would fall off the track at either a valley or a bridge."
maybe suap can get a tsa job walkin the line....
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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suap,
9/11 families to Obama: 'Thank you for doing what you promised'
bush promised too, but we know how few of those promises were kept. were you shrub's illegitmate child and you need some lovin?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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which seems ill-advised with a drone that size
LOL
It's what's left of a tail rotor of a silenced MH60L. (upside down) You can see the drive shaft draped over the wall.
Silenced helicopters have been around since the 70's
I've been overflown by a silenced UH-1. Looked like it had barn doors for rotor blades!
You can't hear the blades at all and only hear it when it's close enough that you can hear the turbine. Right on top of you.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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which also explains earlier questions on how they could fly undetected as that modified copter had special ant-radar coatings as well. while not as stealthy as a plane, it apparently can still get the job done.
but alas, there are still other reported details that provide food for whatever the conspiracy theorists wnat to question.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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which seems ill-advised with a drone that size
LOL
It's what's left of a tail rotor of a silenced MH60L. (upside down) You can see the drive shaft draped over the wall.
Silenced helicopters have been around since the 70's
I've been overflown by a silenced UH-1. Looked like it had barn doors for rotor blades!
You can't hear the blades at all and only hear it when it's close enough that you can hear the turbine. Right on top of you.
TGT, good catch! I'm not familiar with the stealth mod and the cowling makes it look like a drone, albeit one with a mysterious lift component. To some extent then it's even worse that either the pilot didn't know there was a compound wall there, or there was a maintenance issue - both bad.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Regarding the silence of the copters
http://mashable.com/2011/05/02/live-tweet-bin-laden-raid/
A Pakistani IT consultant LIve tweeted the raid (without knowing what was going on) and made it clear that the helicopters were plenty loud.
Helicopter hovering above Abbottabad at 1AM (is a rare event). ReallyVirtual
May 1, 2011 at 12:58
Go away helicopter - before I take out my giant swatter :-/ ReallyVirtual
May 1, 2011 at 13:05
A huge window shaking bang here in Abbottabad Cantt. I hope its not the start of something nasty :-S ReallyVirtual
May 1, 2011 at 13:09
@m0hcin the few people online at this time of the night are saying one of the copters was not Pakistani... ReallyVirtual
May 1, 2011 at 13:48
t
OMG :S Bomb Blasts in Abbottabad.. I hope everyone is fine :( han3yy
May 1, 2011 at 13:45
t
@m0hcin all silent after the blast, but a friend heard it 6 km away too... the helicopter is gone too. ReallyVirtual
May 1, 2011 at 13:44
@raihak Funny, moving to Abbottabad was part of the 'being safe' strategy ReallyVirtual
May 1, 2011 at 13:57
Since taliban (probably) don't have helicpoters, and since they're saying it was not "ours", so must be a complicated situation #abbottabad ReallyVirtual
May 1, 2011 at 14:02
The abbottabad helicopter/UFO was shot down near the Bilal Town area, and there's report of a flash. People saying it could be a drone.
Kinda remarkable that Bin Laden and his compound weren't well defended. He must have felt protected (or not, what do I know)
but know this, it's obvious from the tweets that it wasn't cat-like silence where Bin Laden suddenly awoke from slumber to a gun in his face.
There are report circulating (could be more people mistaken) that four helicopters were used in the operation and one went down due to ground fire, but I can't find a credible link for that. Can you get 26 guys into one of those machines and fly away? Wiki says they can carry 11 troops and a four man crew but I suppose people could cram in for an emergency.
Bin Laden's daughter said the seals took her Brother so it's possible we have a prisoner that we don't know about yet.
Peace
karl
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shut up and pull
climber
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FASCIST:
Obama floats plan to tax cars -- by the mile...
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shut up and pull
climber
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LIBS NEVER EVER SEEM TO BE ABLE TO DIGEST THIS ONE, AND COME UP WITH A COGENT RESPONSE.
This is from a speech Obama made in 2006:
The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.
Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion.That is “trillion” with a “T.” That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers. And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President’s budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion.
Numbers that large are sometimes hard to understand. Some people may wonder why they matter. Here is why: This year, the Federal Government will spend $220 billion on interest. That is more money to pay interest on our national debt than we’ll spend on Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. That is more money to pay interest on our debt this year than we will spend on education, homeland security, transportation, and veterans benefits combined. It is more money in one year than we are likely to spend to rebuild the devastated gulf coast in a way that honors the best of America.
And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the Federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and States of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.
Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America’s priorities.
Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006
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shut up and pull
climber
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SO LETS SEE:
OBAMA IN 2006 SAYS WE SHOULD NOT RAISE THE DEBT LIMIT BECAUSE WE WERE ALREADY IN TOO MUCH DEBT BACK THEN.
NOOOOOW, OBAMA SAYS WE MUST RAISE THE DEBT LIMIT, EVEN THOUGH WE ARE IN FAR FAR WORSE OFF SHAPE ECONOMICALLY, AND WITH MUCH HIGHER DEBT.
CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN TO ME THE MIND OF BARRY HUSSEIN OBAMA?
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Below another observation and not mine but makes sense. So this is speculation.
* 24 in the primary assault group
* 80 "commandos" total. Not clear if this includes aircrew on the MH-47, CSAR assets, etc. Likely includes the 24 in the primary assault force.
* Force included tactical SIGINT (ISA), collection team, and "navigators"
* Assault launched from either Jalalabad, Afghanistan, or Ghazi, Pakistan. "Official" reporting is Afghanistan, but it is still possible that it was launched from Ghazi.
* 2 MH-47s as "backup"
* 2 "Modified blackhawks" for the primary assault force. The "modified blackhawks" may be conventional news outlets sourcing a AvWeek story which sources SPF.
* After the loss of 1 assault helicopter, the aircraft was demolished and the orphaned assaulters used one of the MH-47s for exfil.
So given the above, the two "stealth helicopters" flew in with some very unstealthy MH-47s. If the assault launched out of JBad, the SHHHHHH-60s would likely have refueled at some point. A stealthy inflight refueling boom would be an interesting challenge, but a FARP is another possibility.
Given the number of persons in the assault force, and the requirements to conduct an assault like this, the transport capacity seems thin. Since the lessons of EAGLE CLAW US special operations forces have not made it a practice to under resource an assault. It's likely there were more backup assets, that the helicopters were not near max capacity, and that there was replication within the assault force. The loss of an assault helicopter (and its operators) was almost certainly planned for, so it's possible there were additional SHHHHHH-60s. On the ground observers only saw/heard 4 helicopters, though obviously this is not very reliable information. They were stealth helicopters
There are a few possible organizations that could operate a SHHHHHH-60:
* AFSOC
* TF160
* JSOC Aviation SMU(s)
End………………………………………………………………..
Ok! Language for above and a couple of comments:
CSAR: Combat Search and Rescue
MH-47s: Chinooks * note also called sh#thooks.
SIGINT (ISA): SIGINT (SIGnals INTelligence)monitoring and tracking radio communications e.g. finding a hostage by homing in on the kidnapper's cell phones or tracking a terrorist organisation through its communications network.
US Army Intelligence Support Activity (USAISA), also known as ISA, 'The Activity', and, in recent times, 'Gray Fox', is a top secret Army intelligence unit. The Activity grew out of the need for specialized intel support for US Special Operations that was highlighted by the failed US attempt to rescue American hostages from Iran in 1980.
Modified blackhawks: UH-60 [SHHHHHHHH-60] nickname for SHHHHH or quiet or almost silent. These would have been CIA Helos.
FARP: Forward Area Refueling Point [US DoD] or [US Marine]
AFSOC: Air Force Special Operations Command
The first Stealth UH-60 that crashed would have been destroyed using termite grenades [speculation or guessing]. Also looks like they cut off cell use and phone by using electromagnetic pulse. [speculation] but would be a first but if I recall guy Twitted while this was going on, so did they or did they not use it? Would have to look at time line to see if this would be accurate. Wonder if there will be any serial # on tailings or parts that Pakistan recovered? Made in the USA?
That’s just getting into the place, no word of attack which will probably never know at least for a while.
So waiting for the dust to settle.
By the way Chinese are already on it. Body and tail most likely fabric with no coating?
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shut up and pull
climber
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OH NOOOOO. MICHAEL MOORE -- THE LEFT'S FAVORITE FILMMAKER -- HAS NOW TURNED ON HOPEY!
SAAAVE HOPEY!
FAHRENHEIT 2011? Michael Moore Accuses Obama of “Executing” Bin Laden. “Moore’s a good gauge of how poorly the administration has been managing its victory lap narrative. In fact, one could say without exaggerating that the story has come to feel more like a cover-up scandal and less like good news from the front. Weird.” The raid was handled by the military. The post-raid has been handled by the usual gang of incompetents.
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monolith
climber
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Karl, it's likely the stealth helicopters went in first. The noisy ones would be kept farther out till the cats out of the bag.
Otherwise, whats the point of using silenced helicopters?
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shut up and pull
climber
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Too funny. For decades liberals have assailed all forms of war -- if engaged in by Republicans.
Now, with Hopey as president, war is ok -- Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, and the assassination of OBL -- all these wars are just another thing we do. No problem. No protests, no shouting "End War" or "Drop Bread Not Bombs".
Gitmo is up and running, secret prisons still operating, rendition used all the time. And the libs are silent, or -- even defending these practices.
Again -- funny as hell. And telling.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Karl, it's likely the silenced helicopters went in first. The noisy ones would be kept out of earshot till the cats out of the bag.
You can look at the tweet times above and see the guy heard helicopters 40 minutes before the big Bang (of them demolishing the failed one)
I imagine you'd hear even silenced helicopters when they land in your back yard, particularly if one had problems. I don't know how they breeched the walls but if it wasn't by climbing, it made noise too.
So still kinda remarkable that Bin Laden didn't have time or energy to arm himself and that they only had to shoot a few people out of 20 in the compound
Peace
karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Geez Shut up and Pull, there's a politics thread where you can post all that stuff.
Are you really losing your mind that Obama is getting some credit for something? I know it's going to suck when he's reelected and you have to wait 4 more years hoping for tea party.
But hey, there's plenty of on-topic criticism for Obama here so why not chill a bit and keep the stuff on the topic.
Note: everybody else is going a fine job not feeding into SUAP here so pardon me and lets go back to all things Binny.
Peace
Karl
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monolith
climber
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Karl, you are relying on assuming all the info is accurate. Speculate all you want, but no one is going to bring 2 noisy copters in with 2 stealth ones. Come on Karl!
Could be the noisy ones were standing off, near where the tweeter was.
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Gene
climber
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Thanks, Bro.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Come on Gene
Isn't it reasonable to suspect the time stamps on tweets are accurate when they happen to agree with the time of the assault? The speculation is about what other helicopters were there, if any. Maybe even stealth copters make noise when they hover fully loaded over your house!
The guy tweeted this, and it made a lot of news, without knowing what was up and with no personal agenda. He heard helicopters so it's not so far fetched to say they were audible!
Peace
karl
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