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goatboy smellz
climber
dirty south
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:54pm PT
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OMG Fletcher...what[url="http://www.widefetish.com/] sickos![/url]
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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 11, 2009 - 03:55pm PT
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Yes, Job interview is at 6pm in Ojai. "Laughing..." I am leaving here at 2pm and will be in Ojai between 3:30 and 4 pm. That gives me a good hour and half buffer. Sadly I am already dressed in my best, wearing a good pair of heels and hating it. All my paperwork is straight, etc, etc.
Trust me, this is a good distraction to prevent me from getting nervous! I hope you don't mind!
---------
Anyway, why am I thinking about this??? Well, long story short girlfriend called, asked for advice and started me thinking. I remember more than a dozen strange and awkward moments. (Luckily I have more good experiences than bad...) Yet... The end result is that I realized that I don't have a clue. Do you? Does anyone? (Common sense chaos!) Do we have any specifics on what is considered appropriate in this day and age?
:)AF
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rhyang
climber
SJC
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Mar 11, 2009 - 04:00pm PT
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A woman avoiding fattrad ??!! No way, could never happen, lol :)
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luggi
Trad climber
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Mar 11, 2009 - 04:01pm PT
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Anna...all I will offer to this is men have "a stupidity gland" yes it is true. Doctors have tried to trace the purpose only to come away frustrated. I sometimes think...maybe less talk and more climb is a tactic to confuse the gland...keep it focused on other things...
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goatboy smellz
climber
dirty south
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Mar 11, 2009 - 04:04pm PT
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OMG Fletcher...what[url="http://www.widefetish.com/] sickos![/url]
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goatboy smellz
climber
dirty south
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Mar 11, 2009 - 04:05pm PT
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^^^ my account has been hacked.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Mar 11, 2009 - 04:06pm PT
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I think that frequently, sexual, social complexity is something that a woman has created for herself, as much as it is just the way that it is. Not saying this is the case here, but more often than not, I find that there are a lot of women who are "offended" by advances from the opposite sex, yet they egg them on, in reality. Usually, these same women "complain" about the "offenses" in order to gain even more attention. It's all really quite disgusting.
It's very similar to the number of women who go out in a skirt that barely covers their ass, so long as they don't bend over, and a blouse covering little more than their bra (if they're wearing one) and then complain about all of the men gawking at them...
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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Mar 11, 2009 - 04:08pm PT
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Living in a town infested with strong independent feminist climber chicks, I tried to be all hyper-respectful with my female climbing partners, only to find out later that they had crushes on me and figured I must be gay for not hitting on them. I just couldn't fvcking win.
That being said, some of my best(and strongest)and most successful climbing partnerships have been with women.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Mar 11, 2009 - 04:11pm PT
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Beatrix wrote: "When I do not reciprocate the affection and that partner proceeds to ditch me for THAT REASON, that is where my frustration comes from"
and
"So men, if you have a crush on your parnter, let it be known and if your partner doesn't reciprocate, be a man and deal with it."
Frustrating? Sure. But I think you also have to look at it from the guy's perspective, particularly in a case where you really know each other and it isn't random lusting after a hot body you just met or the prospect of some strange.
So a guy is attracted to you and wants more than a frienship, you aren't interested and decline. The guy has been rejected. Everytime this guy sees you after that they will feel the sting of that rejection, especially if they really had feelings (beyond lust) for you. So why would the guy continue to subject himself to those feelings of rejection and the resulting tension that will hang around that climbing partnership when he can just get another partner?
To me, they ARE "dealing with it", by removing themselves from a painful/humiliating situation. You seem to imply that the "manly" thing to do is to suck it up, accept that the woman isn't attracted to you, and keep climbing with them despite that, even though it isn't a comfortable situation for the man and puts a strain on the climbing partnership. Who wants to spend all weekend being continually reminded of rejection or wallowing in some perceived inadequacy?
And ladies, not every guy out there who offers the "free guided tour" type easy day is out to get in your pants..or knickers..or capris. Sometimes it's just nice to have an easy, low stress day and repay some of the karmic mentor debt.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 11, 2009 - 04:14pm PT
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Growing up as the older brother of two very attractive sisters, and being the father of two attractive single women in their 20's (who both occasionally climb), I found this thread quite relevant.
Believe it or not, the social confusion can happen for males, too. Just try being a single male professional in his late 20's, and attending, say, church. I, too, had to separate those who wanted to share activities with me because they liked the activities from those who were interested in romance. Of course, a 25+-year-old wedding ring and a 57-year-old body have put an end to that issue personally.
My only advice, gleaned from (sometimes bitter) personal experience and observation of my sisters and daughters is that very few people who have romantic interests can handle being "just friends." If their romantic interests differ from yours, better to end the relationship.
If you're going on a trip to a new area, nothing wrong with taking along male friends, as long as you both know that is the extent of the relationship. Even then, sharing intense events has a way of changing feelings. Still, I don't regret sharing climbs, bridge games, church work and music with women who were friends, but whose relationship with me changed (not always unilaterally). Without those experiences, I would never have been ready for my wife.
Best of luck.
John
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Mar 11, 2009 - 04:15pm PT
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Oh yeah... I forgot.
Hot guys seldom have any issues with this.
Just sayin'...
Carry on, ugly dudes!
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Mar 11, 2009 - 04:29pm PT
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Guilty - cry baby on occasion! :)
In defense of the occasional cry on a climb - it's no big deal and generally something to laugh about later. It's just an emotional release that happens when I get really angry or frustrated. Others curse like sailors, or scream gutteral utterings into the canyon. Some cry.
And I find it interesting that occasional tears distress others when it shouldn't.
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal Hell
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Mar 11, 2009 - 04:30pm PT
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First of all, not all us female climbers are cry babies! All of the women I've climbed with over the years, none of them cried, and nor were any of them "catty".
My best climbing partner was a female, she climbed at least two grades higher than I, but we took turns-sport areas ideal for that-.
Also, I have found climbing with much younger guys has been pretty much stress free, we just climb, no weird dynamics.
I also disagree on the attitude that if a man climbs at a much higher grade than I that he has ulterior motives. Some guys are just happy to be out climbing, appreciate a belay slave, lol, and really do love climbing and don't have to always be pushing the numbers to have fun.
Lastly, there are times when attraction has come into the picture when climbing with men. Just have dealt with it on a individual basis, whatever will be will be~ but if the guy is a jerk, it is just as well to let em' go, who wants that kind of person to be roped up with!!!
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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 11, 2009 - 04:45pm PT
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It's not complex, we just have 111 post because relationships are simple!
Right...
Carry on folks... :)
P.S. I don't cry when I get scared, I get angry. Well, except that time when I was so scared that I made my team retreat from El Cap.... (Never had to pay them for the courtesy of taking care of me because they are REAL MEN.)
Now off I go before it gets late!
AF
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Beatrix Kiddo
Mountain climber
Littleton
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Mar 11, 2009 - 04:48pm PT
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elcap, I TOTALLY see your point and it makes perfect sense. I see my problem. I "assumed" that my partner's intentions were to simply climb with me and establish a relationship/partnership based on just that. Since his intentions were different than mine, you're so right. Why the heck would he/they stick around if the situation was uncomfortable? Why would he waste time on me who was a good partner but not the complete package he was looking for (climbing girlfriend/lover)? It does sting when you spend a couple of years building trust, climbing amazing routes and establishing a friendship when someone you think highly of walks away. I don't have to like it but it really does make sense and it sucks. Men and women both have it rough but for different reasons.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
here to eternity
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Mar 11, 2009 - 05:09pm PT
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I agree with Karen regarding disparities in climbing abilities. There can be an ulterior motive, but that's certainly not always the case. As others have mentioned, it's rewarding for some to show others around. Just because the route is easy for some, doesn't mean they cannot enjoy it.
And perhaps here is a key to a good relationship. When it's not all about what you "get" from it (that is important), but also about what you genuinely "give" to it, then the relationship has the potential to grow and deepen. Being a belay slave can be a gift to someone who loves to lead. And showing someone of lesser ability the ways to climb at a higher level is a gift that is often very much appreciated. After all, those at a higher level had to start somewhere themselves. If this wasn't true, we wouldn't have many teachers, eh?
Eric
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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 11, 2009 - 05:13pm PT
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Rokjox,
I have a one out of five chance that he has herpes... I don't like those odds. (Dang it, I got to go, tear myself off this thing, argh!!!!)
:)AF
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MisterE
Trad climber
One Place or Another
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Mar 11, 2009 - 05:27pm PT
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Where is that unicorn - oh, there she is.
8^D
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Mar 11, 2009 - 05:27pm PT
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Tell them that you are a guy!
But for that to work, you'll have to stop whining.
:-)
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Mar 11, 2009 - 05:28pm PT
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There are way more guy than girl climbers.
1% of guys have an excess of of testosterone so they climb.
1 attractive female partner.
Due the math.
Take it as a compliment. Shoot them down up to 3 times and if they haven't gotten the message stop climbing with them.
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