Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
WBraun
climber
|
|
Keep em coming Khun, I've learned a lot from your posts and they are very interesting. That last one about GM and the trolleys I've never ever heard about.
Thanks ......
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
Here's an easily reproducible experiment.
Pick up a copy of the Koran, (about $3.50 in paperback)
Randomly open it and read three pages.
Do that six times.
If you still believe that Islam is the "religion of peace" then you are justified in believing anyting else Khun what's his face claims.
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
'sup kids
been out in the gunks all week (fatty, that's where some people actually climb, not that you will know what i am talking about)...
just buggy and muggy, that's the whole TR.
KDB-
lemme let you in on something pal, yer not gonna get a reasonable answer around here. the closest it comes is a well spoken but misguided diatribe like the one that started this thread off. more often than not, you can simply expect regurgitated rhetoric and unexplored, unexpanded, undefendable statements and claims, often delivered w/ an all too familiar dismissive conviction (one that i personally think is fostered by the MSM, and which conditions its patrons to proclaim and repeat, rather than discuss and consider, but that is another subject).
lois-
the one thing i get from you in that 1st post is that you "feel safer" w/ gW than you would have w/ mr. sensitive" in charge.
here's the thing baby, no iraqis have ever attacked you, but OSB and his one good kidney are running around free, and he's still playing his own dominos and sitting in his own hammock, and it's likely that he's discussing and considering (rather than proclaiming and repeating) new ways to change the globe toward one of his own liking. as far as him being tough, squashing the enemy, and making you "safe", OBLs probably not short on recruits these days neither. think your guy's little experiment in iraqi democracy is gonna make you safe? what a lark! they went in on the cheap and (just like fatty) had no idea what they were getting into.
say, as an aside, and speaking of OBL, maybe the US army ought to bring him in as a consultant? sems he knows how to fire up the nobodies and the po'folk when it's time to die for the cause? (73 virgins waiting in heaven? why didn't we think of that 1st? that's just pure genious! how about just 45 virgins or so, plus an infinate supply of viagra? all for just one weekend a month and 2 weeks a year...)
back to that war stuff, whatever it was that we started in afganistan is still largely undone, incomplete, and unsustainable politically w/out our continued military presence, and if the last 100 years(+/-) of our country's history in the affairs of foregin countries is any indicator, the local folks there can expect to continue to be put through the ringer on behalf of our major industries and their economic priorities.
further, despite whatever you think can be gleaned from your quaint summary of the various historical trends and leanings of the 2 major poitical parties, your government is not getting any smaller, my friend, and it ain't bill clinton's fault neither, so if people like you were actually paying any attention to the state of things in this country (rather than what you repeatedly hear your favorite tv commentators repeating about the state of things in this country), it seems like ya'll'd be gettin kinda peev'd too.
curious, that.
additionally, lost in the fairly rational discusion above (if a ST thread can ever be described as such, and largely cause the new guy is less jaded than the rest of us and has mad pasting skills) is the disturbing fact that the fairly small but remarkably well organized evangelical-christian right-wingers currently hold a tremendous amount of sway in the republican party. these people seriously believe that the world is coming to an end, and sometime soon, so there is no point in protecting anything. they see the war in iraq as a religious crusade, an ultimate clash of good vs. evil, one of holy warriors vs. infidels (which does not exactly mesh w/ joy over purple pinkies).
before you move on and forget about that little group and their priorities, make a conceptual salad of the peak oil scenarios, including the pending collapse of the global economy, and the ever accelerating transfer of wealth in this country to the top 1% of americans. sweet. if you were filthy rich and were afraid everything was going to go to hell, what would you want to do? get as filthy rich as you could as fast as you could and aboliish the inheritance tax? that'd be a start.
and judy wrote-
"You are wrong again. A majortiy of the muslim world that dislikes the US is because of our support for Israel, check their maps and discover that Israel does not exsist. This is a clash of religions and civilizations, not much different than the crusades, I know this is a difficult concept to accept, that someone would dilike you just because of your beliefs, but this is the reality."
regurgitation of the original claim that "they attacked us because they hate fredom, they hate our way of life".
seriously?
please, can't you se osama, sittin there in his hammock, playing his dominos, saying, "those damn americans are just way too damn free! i really hate their way of life, i've just about had it, listen, i have this idea..."
in case you weren't paying too close attention above, you were just exposed as having no clue what the funck you are talking about WRT anything outside your own walnut creek neighborhood, your luxory automobile(s), and your office park, 'cause you have never ever seriously considered anything that you were not forced to consider, and you have rarely (if ever) been forced to consider any situation where you were not fundamentally in charge or in some way morally superior to whomever it was that you were interacting with.
(KDB- fattyguy is/was a cop too)
as for the israel question, perhaps that was always the lynchpin for hatred of the US among the arabs or the muslims (or whomever it's popular to feel threatened by these days), but the abu grhaib(sp?) photos (the worst of which are yet to come) and the wreckless disregard for the sanctity of human (non-american) life that we have both demonstrated and allowed the world to exagerate will long be remembered and refrenced by those who seek to harm us in the future.
(and lois- this goes back to your misguided sense of security) we are playing army in the sandbox in a place where grudges are held for generations, for centuries upon centuries, and where bloody religious conflicts have persisted for eons. you want your revenge for 9/11 and then you want to go watch a nascar race or shop jcrew online, but you don't have the stomach for the fight unless it's fought in someone else's backyard! you simply cannot conceive of a full scale millitary conflict in your own neighborhood, none of us can, and that is primarily because it hasn't happened here since the civil war.
speaking of civil war, back to israel- bill clinton put an intense amount of energy toward seeking a resolution to those issues, and gW, almost as if he wanted to prevent that from being a clinton legacy, ignored the conflict and was basicly forced into this "roadmap" approach by his own persuit of the war in iraq ("they" said he'd better play ball if he was going to pretend to have an interest in the well being of anyone in the arab world, i still recall the day he 1st announcd it as some sort of an aside after more pre-war rhetoric spew about those mythical WMDs and whatnot).
here's one for judy herself (no doubt lurking?)
jesus was a liberal, and you could tell because he was interested in helping people, providing for them all, and making their lives better. any christian who cares less about people, all people, than he did, is an insult to his memory and his legacy.
don't you agree?
|
|
Khun Duen Baad
climber
Retirement
|
|
[2.11] And when it is said to them, Do not make mischief in the land, they say: We are but peace-makers.
[2.12] Now surely they themselves are the mischief makers, but they do not perceive.
[2.13] And when it is said to them: Believe as the people believe they say: Shall we believe as the fools believe? Now surely they themselves are the fools, but they do not know.
[2.14] And when they meet those who believe, they say: We believe; and when they are alone with their Shaitans, they say: Surely we are with you, we were only mocking.
[2.15] Allah shall pay them back their mockery, and He leaves them alone in their inordinacy, blindly wandering on.
[2.16] These are they who buy error for the right direction, so their bargain shall bring no gain, nor are they the followers of the right direction.
[2.17] Their parable is like the parable of one who kindled a fire but when it had illumined all around him, Allah took away their light, and left them in utter darkness-- they do not see.
[2.18] Deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they will not turn back.
[2.19] Or like abundant rain from the cloud in which is utter darkness and thunder and lightning; they put their fingers into their ears because of the thunder peal, for fear of death, and Allah encompasses the unbelievers.
Here's the first page I opened to. I won't bother quoting some of the Beowulf-like passages from the Bible because we all know they are there and I'm entirely uninterested in religious debate; I don't condone any organized religion. Having been raised athiest I can't wrap my head around the idea of a God. My point was simply that I've never been treated as consistently well in any culture anywhere.
Degaine, here is a Dutch report outling 4 scenarios for the future, some of them positive, and you can decide for yourself which ones are plausible.
http://www.ecn.nl/docs/library/report/2005/c05057.pdf
Similarly:
Former Officials Fail to Prevent Recession in Mock Energy Crisis
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/23/AR2005062301896.html
Jesus was a dirty hippie and probably a closet homosexual.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
Khun Baad wrote "Jesus was a dirty hippie and probably a closet homosexual."
Hippie...Hard to deny that
Dirty...Unlikely, Jews bathed before worship
Gay...This kind of speculation does more harm than good (shock value) in my opinion
The art of communicating depends on keeping everybody's ears open and taking them from what they know to what they need to know. Why toss out something inflamatory about Jesus that's bound to alienate both followers of Christianity and Islam? (where Jesus is also a key prophet destined to save the world in the end)
We'd be better off encouraging more fundamentalist Christians to follow Jesus' teachings of love, tolerance, and embracing enemies, than we would be by throwing troll genades at him. Too bad because I appreciate your contributions very much.
I think we ought to start a separate thread on Peak Oil. This one kills me to load on dial-up because of all the "Babe" that folks are using to prove their political philosophy
Peace
Karl
|
|
Khun Duen Baad
climber
Retirement
|
|
I was being entirely facetious and inciteful, Karl. They're all just stories to me and I've never read most of them. One of the reasons I do it is because I believe that for one to be offended by another's comment you have to choose to take offense (Itry not to myself but sometimes it happens). I was trolling for some defensive Christians (and people who don't realize how deeply the Christian thing is bred into them-same as nationalism), for you I promise not to do it anymore.
Oh, and if you didn't realize, I'm not trying to make any friends in America for two reasons: guns and Jesus. They are just not people I want to deal with in the kinds of scenarios we are talking about.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
I worked for the company that employed all of the building engineers, electricians, elevator mechanics, and janitors that worked and died in the WTC in a high level management position and left only months before 9/11. If it was an inside job and a controlled demolition the number of people involved could not have been kept secret from us. And there's no way in that companies culture it could have been kept a secret.
The crackpot theories on the Pentagon and Pensylvania crashes are easily disproven with only a modicum of knowledge of high school physics.
You should ask yourself, what drives you to have such a desire to believe that your own nation, (and by extension yourself) are so evil that you have to stand physics and common sense on its head to entertain such theories.
|
|
Ouch!
climber
|
|
TGT, they know their dimwitted leader does not believe in science and probably vacillates between the Bible and a Ouija board. They are just following his example and lost in the bush.
|
|
Turbin Durbin
Social climber
A better place than Gitmo
|
|
Dude, you give liberals a bad name.
How embarrased they must be!
|
|
Ouch!
climber
|
|
Yo Weird! If you are so gungho, how come you aren't in Iraq, leading your chickenhawk buddies on a charge thru the camel dung and sand fleas? Waving Confederate flags and shouting, "Hallelujah! Hold that Dromedary. It's my turn!"
BTW, Cool picture of you that RokJox posted in that other thread. How does it feel to pee by braille?
|
|
Ouch!
climber
|
|
Hit a nerve, eh weird. You can always tell when you cut thru the facade of chickenhawk bravado. It gets pissed off and loses it's cool.
Answer the question. Why are you not in Iraq, putting your ass where your mouth is?
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Ha ha ha ha ha ha LoL old Ouch! got your ass Howweird ….and in real life Howey, ... he’d also kick your ass.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Yep, he's tough as nails ......
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Now Howey, there are some people who’ve worked the land with their hands and feet. They’ll get right down and do what it takes to get their job done. They’ve put their whole life, body and soul into it, blood sweat and tears.
Then there are the so called intellectual wizards who spout all kinds of so called learned knowledge, and can’t even drive a simple nail straight. They’re the real worthless fu-ckers in my book!
Try real hard not to become one of those “so called intellectual wizards”.
|
|
Ouch!
climber
|
|
"Because I am not in the military, moron."
Lame excuse. Bush is always looking for a few good men. Lately,
it seems, he is so desperate, he might even take you. Now boy, you just get off your couch and get down to the recruiting office. Make your fearless leader proud. You surely have some usable skills besides putting your foot in your mouth.
Funny how those who crow loudest are those furthest from the fray. Chickenhawks? Naw. Tweetiebirds.
|
|
Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
|
|
Why go to Iraq when you can push a button?
|
|
Ouch!
climber
|
|
If you ask me, a patriot is someone who loves his country and shows it in the way he lives in his community. Not by braying like a jackass and letting his alligator mouth overload his hummingbird committment. He is also not averse to speaking out when he sees his beloved country leaping headlong toward the abyss.
Yep, Weird. Go join up. Get that haircut. Learn to clean latrines and shoot guns. Maybe you can learn to love the warrior and hate the war your fearless chickenhawk leaders have blundered us into.
|
|
Khun Duen Baad
climber
Retirement
|
|
"And do not turn your face away from people in contempt, nor go about in the land exulting overmuch; surely Allah does not love any self-conceited boaster;
"And be moderate in thy pace, and lower thy voice; for the harshest of sounds without doubt is the braying of the ass."
|
|
MikeL
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
People have been throwing around the terms “liberal” and “conservative” freely (and hard) around here. Here’s what a little research on liberalism and conservatism told me.
A liberal is a man who believes in liberty. Initially for the English, liberty meant freedom from constraints of the state, especially from executive government. A new school of liberalism, utilitarianism, came along that meant the state would free men from misery and ignorance. This, however, created a paradox: liberalism (i) urged freedom from constraints of the state, and it (ii) urged an enlargement of the state’s power to liberate the poor from poverty. The French had the right (royalism and conservatism), the left (socialism, anarchism, communism), and the center (liberalism). In our country, American liberalism—at first a moniker for socialism--came to stand for an idea of human perfectibility, one that looks forward to an egalitarian democracy, where the state functions as a servant to the common well-being. German liberalism, well it was . . . different: it stood for a nationalistic idea that true freedom was to be found in obedience to a morally perfected state (see, Bismark and Hitler).
A conservative, on the other hand, has a love of the familiar. He exhibits a preference for what has grown up over a long time rather than what is created deliberately or quickly. Reacting to a rationalist notion that man can control human life, conservatives are hostile to strong social change by the state to achieve rights or utopias. They believe in the wisdom of humanity slowly changing to fit shifting situations, rather than the brilliance of a few men to engineer effective change. Why? Conservatives think human affairs are very complicated and unpredictable. Conservatives doubt that science or government has the ability to solve man’s problems (which lie in his very nature). If improvements in men’s ways are to be realized at all, they will come from elevating man’s moral behaviors (hence, the religion connection). Conservatives can exhibit great love for individual men yet detest man.
As for political postings . . . , I ask you to think for a moment what you’re writing. Are you referring to these meanings above, or are you expressing yourself about a particular politician or two?
If it’s the former, then your statements concern broad political ideologies. Try not to include specific individuals in your writing. Why? Because no single person or instance constitutes a category or a label. Instead, talk about what’s right or wrong with the political ideology.
On the other hand, if you are expressing yourself about a particular politician or two, then your statements are actually personal. Try not to throw the labels “liberal” or “conservative” around indiscriminately. Talk about the individual without casting a net over everyone else who might consider him or herself a liberal or conservative—people you’ve not even met or mentioned (like maybe the rest of us).
Last, if you mean neither and you’re just talking about specific individuals and labels in the same breadth, then you’re confused. When you’re confused and you express yourself, you cause confusion in other people.
It gets to be a vicious cycle after a few postings. It breeds insanity and chaos.
ml
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
judy-
judy, fatty, fratguy, doesn't much matter what i call you now, does it? you oughta have known i was talking to you, ya fat bi-atch...
hey judy, when you slouch in your EZ chair, can you place a beer on top of that belly and let it sit? thought so.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!