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Wack
climber
Dazevue
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Dec 20, 2008 - 11:44pm PT
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Epoke 900's were a great ski if you buried the tips and tails in hot wax to cover the excess mica. Their one draw back was the bright yellow color that transfixed your stare after eating 'shrooms on a sunny day.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Dec 21, 2008 - 04:21am PT
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I come back and the thread has veered onto Epoke 900s. Feels right, like full circle to where I think bluering was in his memory, blasting around on his Mom's cross country skis, when he kicked off this discussion.
Weren't 900s a revelation when they came out? Smooth and tractable from that wood core, with bash-a-pine-tree tough glass coating. As soon as you had a couple of inches of fresh they came into their own. Who needs edges? Who needs width, when you can go arcing around in some of da kine. Like any of those shots Roy was posting.
Gotta love those Coloradans: "Oh yeah, six inches of fresh. Happens here all the time. No big." Just for that we all got together, sly-like on email, while you were out partying in Boulder and all. And we all decided to come crash all over your front room for as long as it takes us to thoroughly research and then publish the thread: Ski Gear (all sorts) Reconsidered, Hashed Out, and Dissed (Off Topic).
I too am curious about Rando Racing. Not rushing out to sign up, just curious. The dirty little secret about tele skiing is that its gear is all heavier than Randonee (AT). Tele has become lift-served, and thus another "industrial amusement," as C. L. Rawlins put it. The re-invention of... whatever. Thank goodness we're not addressing that here, although the mainline gear putting on weight by following the money limits our choices, when all we really want to do is "go into the mountains and ski in snow." (Chamberlain, in an old Moutain Gazette)
Which is why it felt like such a revelation to climb onto the simple BC ski rig I described upthread. Every piece of it -- skis, bindings, boots -- was lighter than even the lightest AT gear. It goes more places more easily and encourages lightheartedness and freedom.
I skied for the first of the season on Sunday. Just yo-yo at a lift area, but I happened to be sharing runs with Chris Fellows who was for a time head of the Demo Team for the Ski Instructors of America. You know, perfect form to teach the teachers. I was curious what he would have to say. Chris talked about "touch," feeling the snow through your skis, and responding.
That's one of the things I loved about soft leather boots on Epoke 900s, the intimate, caressing feeling in touch with the snow. Wherever our gear goes from that, I try to stay in touch. So I like the nordic stride because it keeps the ball of my foot on the ski, feeling. Feels like a powerful stance too, for commanding those boards to turn. Better than, say, on point above a hinge on the ski. I mean, c'mon, nobody voluntarily hikes in their ice climbing boots, right? Puts you out of touch with the trail.
My simple pin bindings weigh 4 to 8 ounces a pair, and they encourage the ball of my foot to be in touch with the ski. Many of the new bindings, AT and Tele, are four pounds! And the new Tele bindings have hinges and are the heaviest yet. After progressively hobbling us for years with cables and springs and stuff, now they're adding more weight and more expense to give back what personally I never lost, thank you very much, by just sticking to my simple, cheap pins.
Two things I think really have improved in modern gear are boot liners and ski design. The new flow-foam liners are simply cush. They're half the weight of the traditional liners, and I can kick and glide in them all day long, really moving out across country. And if skis can get torsionally stiffer yet longitudinally softer at the same time and without growing heavier, that makes them better tools for handling real alpine snow. Maneuverable short skis with the stability at speed of long skis -- that's magic. If they can turn easier and give me so much more control in the trees that I start bruising my shoulders and wearing a helmet, what's not to like?
End of rant, I'm going to sleep.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 21, 2008 - 10:38am PT
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All righty then!
Temperatures have rocketed to 15°.
And within a couple of hours the ball of my foot will be pressing against the snow;
Feeling the crystals through a thin layer of wood and silently moving through the trees like a dart.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Dec 21, 2008 - 12:22pm PT
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Hey old dads out there, maybe you can help me. I've been skiing on a pair of hand me down Asolos for the past five years. Any idea what they are?
They're like a double mountaineering boot, leather shell, not very high, with an inner boot. All lace up, with p-cord these days.
I have those fischer s-bound skis that I use with these old boots. So far I have not seen a real reason to replace the boots. Though yesterday I bought a pair of beat up scarpa Tele boots to try out on some steeper terrain.
With the s-bounds (scales and shaped ski) I do carry skins for icy conditions. When its frozen hard, i find I really appreciate the stability of the skins, even downhill sometimes.
Tom
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Dec 21, 2008 - 12:55pm PT
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Hey Tom,
Doesn't sound like you need much help to me -- you've got the system!
Are your boots grey or black? Grey would make them Glissade 400s, kinda rare in the Sierra, from the 80s. I still have a pair of the 350s, high top but single. Molded sole, no stitching. Still my XC track skiing boots. I have skied the Sierra High Route in them, beefed up with a carbon-fiber footbed, but honestly that's pushing it a bit.
If they're black and have a stitched welt, they're even older. I forget the name of that boot.
Sweet rig you've got there. Those skis can be pushed quite a ways. I think you'll like what you get out of them with your new (old) plastics. Bishop Bowl? Wahoo Gully?
Although straight up and back stuff like that is one place I might be tempted to climb onto the full-boat "downhill" tele skis.
Now that you mention skins, I gotta admit skinning on my fishscales last winter, humping a load up toward Whitney. I got a bit carried away upthread saying I hadn't used my skins in years. Tarbuster showed us his kicker skins, and I have a variety of sizes, all the way down to 14" x 1" wide. Sometimes a wrap of duct tape is all you need to keep the leading edge from peeling up. The thinner ones add glide (or maybe it's that they don't subtract as much).
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Dec 21, 2008 - 01:03pm PT
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Yep, they're the black ones with the stitched welt. They've worked great so far. Somebody up thread said it right, get some gear and adjust to it.
I've got some skinny old skins, that the modern folks discarded for thicker skins. They work great. If it's so steep that I can't skin up without fat skins, I'd never suvive the downhill ride anyway.
Last winter, a freind passed some old AT gear my way. It was a blast. The boots were too small, which I found out on an over night trip to the palisades, but I was able to ski the resorts in the gear.
I'm currently looking for cheap AT boots that fit. Ebay seems good if your patient.
Tom
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Dec 21, 2008 - 01:45pm PT
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"Get some gear and adjust to it." Perfect balance of humility for the modern dirtbag.
Fat skins have been around long enough now that I've gotten discards and split em lengthwise to make long skinnys. There was brief period in the early 80s when you could buy skinny skins for your nordic rig that were no wider than your thumb.
Looking for used, I like Wilderness Exchange in Berkeley, though their prices seemed to jump up last time I was in. Odd stuff shows up there. Like a to-drool-over pair of handmade Austrian leather XC hightops. But just a little too small. And like 15 pair of a mid-80s Research Dynamics ski that was the runaway favorite of a magazine ski gear test we did at Mammoth back then. So well damped in blasting through crud I swear there was a layer of rubber in there somewhere. I'm tempted to buy a pair just to add to the museum quiver.
And you likely know to check upstairs at Mammoth Mountaineering for their old demos and such. Occasional good deals. Right now they are advertising on the web the flow-foam inners that I love for Garmont Excursions for $50 instead of $200.
With those stitched-welt Asolos (Classic!) we always used to run a bead of clear silicone seal (the caulk-your-tub kind) in the welt before greasing up the leather for the year. Cut down on wet feet.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Dec 21, 2008 - 01:59pm PT
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I pulled a layer of that cualk off last year, realized what it was and re-applied. I may get out for a spin today.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Dec 21, 2008 - 02:18pm PT
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Breathe some of that alpine air for me. I'm becalmed on the coast today.
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Maysho
climber
Truckee, CA
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Dec 21, 2008 - 04:09pm PT
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Its dumping pretty good here at Donner Summit right now.
Just got in from the first race of the year skating 10k, it got warm early this morning, wetting things up, and firming the track, so the skating conditions were good, cooler now, and about 5 new inches so far today.
Peter
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aa-lex
climber
Livermore
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Dec 21, 2008 - 08:32pm PT
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GEEEEEEEEZ guys..............for a bunch of climbers and skiers I would think that some of you would try to help out the little guy! I understand the saving money, finding deals, etc. But at the expense of being able to get good help in finding what you want!! I usually sit these discussions out, but I figure it's about time to say something! Go shop at the little outdoor retailers like Sunrise Mountaineering, Marmot Mountain Works, Gear Exchange.....! If you don't help them and then buy online....they will go out of business, and then none of you can see any gear in person to try things on or get honest help from people who know and are interested in the same stuff you care about. Yeah you might pay a little extra, but you get that value back in service!! Plus you can rent at many of these places before you buy, so that when you do buy its the right product. Sorry just had to rant a little......
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 21, 2008 - 09:27pm PT
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Just got in from a moderate tour,
Goatboy & I popped up to 10,700 feet here in Colorado.
Yankee doodle Lake, 11 miles round-trip, 1300 foot elevation gain:
Yankee Doodle Lake & the Continental Divide above Boulder:
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 21, 2008 - 09:29pm PT
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Goatboy out sliding around on the boards:
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Dec 21, 2008 - 09:34pm PT
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Thanks to this thread I got all excited, blew off bouldering, and headed up to the hills.
There wasn't enough snow and most of the road had melted out. So we walked to Lake Sabrina. It was snowing, and fortunately we brought a few beers.
Tom
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 25, 2008 - 06:25pm PT
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Got out for a short 5+ mile tour on the skinny skis today...
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Dec 25, 2008 - 07:58pm PT
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Hey Tarbaby - did you think about getting Crimpie out of her Parrot Palace in Boulder today - I know she HATES cold - but she did win a Patagucci Das Parka at Facelift after all!!!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2008 - 09:32pm PT
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Nice job of gettin' er' done, Roy. Don't be shy posting to this thread with your tours in the Colorado outback.
me likee.....
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Clu
Social climber
Alameda
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Dec 26, 2008 - 01:57am PT
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Hello Tom Woods. I believe the boots you have are Asolo Snowfields. Marmot in Berkeley had those in rentals and I Snowsealed hundreds. Often on the same day, it seamed. Asolo made 2 models of stitched welt boots, the Snowfield and the Extreme. The Extreme was a little bit higher in the cuff and more for descent, Snowfield for touring with a pack.I still have my Extremes. Both good for falling down. Kind of overmatched for the Karhu GTS of the day. From an old dad.
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
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Dec 26, 2008 - 12:36pm PT
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After enduring 60-80 MPH winds the past couple of days here in Casper, WY...4-8 inches of snow is now falling!! I can almost taste it. Haven't strapped on the X-skis in 2 yrs, but plan on doing so tomorrow...Shhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwiiiinnngg!
Edit: Sounds good Skip...no near future trips to your neck of the woods, but I do like E. Washington. It's a beautiful state. You guys are getting quite bit of snow of late aren't you? Keep sending it east to WY., we need more it. Have a good holiday!
Frank
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Dec 26, 2008 - 03:04pm PT
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Thanks clu- Asolo snowfields. They work great to this day. What's the vintage on these guys?
I'll try out the plastics I just bought, maybe this weekend. It seems like you want two good dumpers, not just one, before you head into the back country.
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