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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2008 - 07:29pm PT
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Thanks Steve. I appreciate the info and you following this topic. I have known about Friends of JT for years of course, but have never been much of an organization type. Perhaps I will try to adjust my social skills and get on board.
Again, thanks and cheers...
Kris
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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"Thanks Steve. I appreciate the info and you following this topic. I have known about Friends of JT for years of course, but have never been much of an organization type. Perhaps I will try to adjust my social skills and get on board.
Again, thanks and cheers...
Kris"
Kris, It's hopeless and a waste of time, Climbed at Williamson lately? I hear the frogs are still not hanging out at the London Wall.
"THEY", the NPS, will do what they wish and WE will pay for it. Pretty simple.
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apogee
climber
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Guyman- did you play any significant role in the efforts to re-open Williamson? If so, thank you for your effort, and I'm with you- it can be very frustrating dealing with land managers. If not, kindly STFU and do something productive.
Are you a member of the Access Fund? What kind of volunteer service have you done in the areas that you frequent? Have you done anything else besides complain on forums like this how badly you are oppressed by the 'NPS Man'?
If so, you have every right to be frustrated, but don't ever, ever, ever give up. If not...well, you know...
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Locker, those signs were for the most part not put there for climbers, lots of people visit the park and as you are well aware tourists love watching the climbers, the interpretive signs in question were placed to show people one of the many uses the park has, the non climbers that see these signs and say, "wow! look what those guys/gals are doing up there" are devolping a sense of why parks are important to people. To you a waste of money, to the family on their one day out of LA, a very interesting and connecting tool. Just remember climbers are one of the smallest user groups of the park, the more support we have to help our parks the better off we all are.
Edit: these signs (if i remember correctly) were funded through a non government grant obtained by SCA's. I taught a lot of these volunteers how to climb and they did a lot of work trying to help the images of climbers in the park.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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My favorite new sign is the one that says "Rock Pile" to let the tourist types know that they're looking at a pile of rocks.
Park fees double, then double again to fund sh#t like this.
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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where is the rock pile sign at?
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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One of the pull-outs between Trashcan Rock and the West Entrance.
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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And all the sign says is "rock pile"?
hmm... that must be really new
got nothin for ya there
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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It's been there for a few years.
At least it's more accurate than the one across the street from Walk on the Wild Side.
It's from the series before last, when they fact-checked the copy before printing signs.
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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LOL!
Ive been in that area hundreds of times, and I don't ever remember seeing a sign that only says rock pile.
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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The NPS should just call Hollywood. They can make lots of old looking walls and get more tourists to visit.
Here's a cool old ruin on Rocky Peak a couple years ago, when they filmed a movie there.
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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To apogee, I write the letters, troy needs, and send em off...I am sure they go right into the paper shredder at Sen B. Boxer and Sen Fienstiens office.
The access fund gets my $$$, I was at the original meetings to get the JT loop road crushed. Friends of JT.
I just don't see climbers getting anything, anything at all from the LAND MANAGERS.
Bottom line...The rangers, NPS and the Dept/fish and game all are run by a bunch of GD idiots who only take our money and blow it on very stupid things. This latest preservation/rebuilding of ruins is a shinning example.
What JT needs is more free camping, period.
I will never give up my efforts to have fun, Dealing with any government TOOL always gets me down.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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It would be one thing if these expensive *improvements* actually improved the place.
Dopey signs (of occasional accuracy), paved road out to Uncle Willie's, the maze of parking lots next to Intersection, and the West Entrance-Ranger-toilet-shed complex are all things we never needed and nobody I know was asking for.
All that expensive grading, paving, striping and signing around Intersection didn't add one single campsite to Hidden Valley CG. Hidden Valley fills up during the week IN THE SUMMER, this should tell even the most retarded Land *Manager* more spaces are needed, certainly before new parking lots (there was already plenty of parking there).
If money's what's needed (I think brains are really what's in short supply at NPS) more campsites will bring in that money.
Who really pays for this? The tourist who drives through the place once in his life, or the guys like us who are out there all the time, paying entrance/camping fees several times each season.
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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wait what about me?
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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oh yeah, I forgot im a tool.
It is I the hated BABYTOOL!!!! Im posted up in the bushes in an undisclosed campground somewhwere in the southwest plotting ways to waste climbers money.
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Public enemy numero uno!
Is my nick name ever going to change, I love the BABY TOOL monicker, but ive been working with the NPS now for some time perhaps TODDLER TOOL would be more appropriate?
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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HA!!
Good times, Someday when I'm a superintendent somewhere, this will probabbly come back to haunt me!
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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God this is awful! The Park Service will never cease in finding ways to f*#k that place up...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Bookworm wrote
"to me, the nps is like the police department: underpaid, understaffed, and underappreciated... "
I hadn't figured you for "let's give government agencies more money to spend" kind of guy.
I know lots of great NPS folks but I'm a "conservative" when it comes to funding. When the beast is lean, it works well. When the beast has extra money, they make sure they spend it somehow.
And if you are on a career track with NPS, you want your resume to reflect improvements and projects that you spearheaded. That means daydreaming about stuff like this. It's not fashionable to increase camping space but it is fashionable to "preserve" historical sites or to develop and refurbish areas for day use or interpretation.
Personally, I used to make regular trips to Jtree for a couple weeks in the spring or fall and camping was free. Then they doubled the entry fee and jacked up camping from 0 to $5 and then doubled it again to $10. I'm not feeling like we got anything worthwhile in the process. Lots of paving and construction but still nowhere for climbers locked out of overcrowded campgrounds to stay.
Sad about it. Jtree should cater to climbers as we are far and away the user group dedicated to the area. Seems like they want to make it into a drive though sight to see on a tick list of tour busses making the run though southern cal.
Peace
Karl
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Well said Karl
The campground issue is lot larger than a lot of people understand. It would involve lots of environmental impact studies and a rather large public comment period, because believe it or not there are large groups out there that hate these kinds of projects.
PREEMPTIVE: I am not saying there is not a need for more camping, i don't agree with a lot of the bureaucratic stuff invoved in the prosses, and yes i am still hiding in the bushes.
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