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Gnat
climber
Smell A
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Now Jody and Gnat have been trolled by Jay. How many times can the same bait succeed?
Chiloe: Have you any idea of what you are typing on that keyboard? Thought not. Poking fun at Jay is great sport, particularly the Clean & Jerk joke.
But now that Jody and Matt are thrashing around on politics and religion BS, someone should pull the plug on this thread.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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werner-
i respect your opinion, but i disagree w/ some of what you say.
while the heart may be refered to as the home of the soul, that is meerly a conceptual value placed upon the heart to make it easier for men to mix the spiritual world w/ the physical world and blend their understanding of them into something tangible. it's easy for men to comprehend the rythem of a beating heart, but the truth about the soul itself is vastly more complex.
the heart is also a muscle. it beats involuntarily, as a direct reaction to nerve impulses that originate in the brain. so the question i have for you is this: is the human heart's conceptual and undefineable relationship w/ the soul directly related to those periodic, automatic, observable and defineable nerve impulses from the brain, and not related in any way to anything else? is it really that simple?
[EDIT]
what if we could cut off someone's head and hook up a machine to recirculate the blood back to the heart, at the same time sending electrical impulses to the heart muscle to cause it to continue beating, would you still make the same argument about the heart housing the soul?
[/EDIT]
as far as her 'conciousness' goes, it's a falsehood that she was in any way able to interact w/ the world around her. she was not able to observe or comprehend the stimuli in her environment. if she were concious but somehow unable to communicate in any way, then 1)brain scans of her neural activity would be indicitive of that, 2)there would have been at least one reputable medical professional testifying that she exhibited some sort of conciousness (or at least the potential for same), and 3)every judge involved in the case over the last 15 years would not have sided w/ her husband.
it's not all conjecture by those less than devout, the poor woman was brain dead, period.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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G-nat
yeah, we have really ruined a valuable thread here, for shame...
even the fishing excursion had run it's course, quit yer whining!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I can't believe you guys are talking about Shaivo on this of all threads.
It's particularly sad since Juan was found dead in his tent in Jtree this morning.
PARTIALLY EATEN BY A COYOTE!
and he was far less brain dead than many have speculated.
(before the coyote ate him that is)
The real mystery is how and why the coyote got zippered in his tent in the first place.
The body will lie in state at the mustang ranch until caterers can order the appropriate supplies for a send off.
You can send money instead of flowers to me. I'll take care of everything.
Karl "who will our next troll be?" Baba
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Werner says:
"Oh and about Juan who "To become a fisher of men"
I really could care less if I was caught on that illusionary so called hook. It has no real power... "
Of course you don't care. None of us care, it's the Internet!
"The real fisherman and hook will reel him in some day and show him the real power.
"The poor fishy Juan will be hung just like in the above photo only with much more terrible results I'm afraid ........"
Why would some entity do that to Juan? And why would it matter? It is ALL illusion. That's the beauty of it. Buddha said so.
In any case, as Karl reports, Juan has moved on to another cycle on the Life/Death Wheel.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Gnat wrote
Chiloe: Have you any idea of what you are typing on that keyboard? Thought not. Poking fun at Jay is great sport, particularly the Clean & Jerk joke.
I well know that it's fun to poke Jay. Even Jay knows that. In this particular instance, he offered some bait and you bit.
Jay wrote
JDF wrote: "Like I said, the crack has worn out due to the nut placements."
A common problem at Chossua Tree with the ever-increasing traffic on the classic moderates.
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jtanzman
climber
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Jay speaketh: "A common problem at Chossua Tree..."
Gnat replied: "Chossua Tree" you got to love it, and from a devotee of such quality rock areas like Williamson and New Jack City.
Yes, Chossua Tree. Louie Anderson's new area, the Riverside Quarry, has better rock than CT. Can you imagine trying to make tabletops out of that grainy "rock" at CT? OK, maybe the White Cliffs of Dover. And the climbing itself sucks. Other than the route in this picture, what's really worth doing there?
-Jay
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Melissa
Big Wall climber
oakland, ca
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Give me more choss and less chalk any day...Reminds me of that Japanese dancing video game where you have to step on the color that pops up on the screen. I'm impressed with the kids that can keep up with this thing when it's set on expert, but for me, it just doesn't feel like dancing.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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What Dingus said, esp the Jody stuff.
Jody, stay with us! You keep us on our toes, and everyone appreciates the photos.
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AndyG
climber
San Diego, CA
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Werner said:
"I'm saying she was conscious. It's a fact, her body was defective in that she could not comunicate except with her eyes. Just like you are in defective auto car and you can only see out the window but are unable to move the vehicle nor communiate outside because the windows are rolled up and are defective [can not be rolled down]. Consciousness means the life force is present. She had movement, she was trapped in a defective body but could still understand the outside world around her. She responded to the outside world.
Today we treat each other almost like machines to be discarded when not usefull anymore."
Werner, you bought the propaganda, man. Except with her eyes? No, including her eyes. The real doctors were unanimous in their opinion that she could not understand the outside world around her and she did not respond to the outside world in any conscious way.
"Someday you will understand beyond the secretarian religosity and political ideals that the life is consciousness. The soul does not reside in the brain, but within the heart. Next time you see some one say "I" and point to themselves you will see them point to the heart.
This is and was my central point."
Primitive peoples would point to their heart when they said I. They also thought that pregnancy came about because of something you ate or a sacrifice you made to a god. The idea that a woman would give birth to a baby because she got screwed by a man nine months ago!?! Ridiculous! Give me a break! That's just silly.
The heart is a muscle. Blood resides in the heart.
Andy
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10b4me
Trad climber
On that V2 problem at the Happies
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Jeff, things too slow over on rec.climbing?
Jody, Jay is too short to climb anywhere else than that hell hole
NJC
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Shack
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Thats right Karl,
poor, poor, Juan was eaten by the
coyote in the above picture.
The coyote, was later heard to say,"Tastes like CHICKEN!"
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WBraun
climber
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Poor Juan dead on the internet???? Hope not so, Karl must be pulling my leg around the block.
So Andy you must be primitive, next time please point to your head.
Because we cannot perceive the soul by our gross senses, we deny it. Actually there are so many things that are there which we cannot see. We cannot see air, radio waves, or sound, nor can we perceive minute bacteria with our blunt senses, but this does not mean they are not there. By the aid of the microscope and other instruments, many things can be perceived which had previously been denied by the imperfect senses. Just because the soul, which is atomic in size, has not been perceived yet by senses or instruments, we should not conclude that it is not there. It can, however, be perceived by its symptoms and effects.
In all species of life the soul exists." The body is like a suit of clothes. You have black clothes; I am dressed in red clothes. But within the dress you are a human being, and I am also a human being. Similarly, the bodies of the different species are just like different types of dress.
That difference is due to the development of consciousness. In the human body there is developed consciousness. Even a tree has a soul, but a tree's consciousness is not very developed. If you cut a tree it does not resist. Actually, it does resist, but only to a very small degree. There is a scientist named Jagadish Chandra Bose who has made a machine which shows that trees and plants are able to feel pain when they are cut. And we can see directly that when someone comes to kill an animal, it resists, it cries, it makes a horrible sound. So it is a matter of the development of consciousness. But the soul is there within all living beings.
From the words of Jesus “ For what doeth it profit a man if he can gain the whole world and lose his own soul “, it is clear that the soul is more precious than the whole world. The true value of soul cannot, therefore, be measured in worldly terms.
Just you wait and see, more to come in the future
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Chatsworth
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2005 - 10:06pm PT
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What evidence do we have that a soul exists?
I am not trying to be funny.
Can this be verified?
Has anyone ever recalled a past life in such detail that it was satistically impossible to be chance?
Juan
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WBraun
climber
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According to the Mundaka Upanishad, this atomic soul is situated in the heart of every living entity, and because the measurement of the atomic soul is beyond the power of appreciation of the material scientists, some of them assert that there is no soul….. Medical science, however, does admit that the heart is the seat of all energies of the body….So whether one follows Vedic knowledge or modern science, one cannot deny the existence of the spirit soul in the body, and the science of the soul is explicitly described in the Bhagavad-gita.
The soul does not take birth there, and the soul does not die. Anything, which has birth, also has death. And because the soul has no birth, he therefore has no past, present or future. He is eternal, ever-existing and primeval- that is, there is no trace in history of his coming into being…..The changes of the body do not affect the soul.”
The Vedic concept of transmigration of soul is absolute Truth and Reality and not fiction or myth. In fact, it will be irrational, unscientific and even revolting to common sense to believe that saints, sinners and vilest criminals should reach the same destination of nothingness or oblivion. In the light of the contents of Srimad Bhagavad-Gita and the research findings of parapsychologists it is quite evident that eternality of soul is an incontrovertible and irrefutable fact or life and death of the physical body cannot mean the extinction of individual consciousness.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Hi Werner
Given that what you have written above is true, what's the big deal if Terri's soul is freed from the defective vehicle that it was trapped in? Is she worse off now on the soul level?
I think it would be a good idea for those who mourn Terri and believe that she was concious to dedicate a whole weekend to laying motionless in bed. No music, no TV, no nice food. Just drink ensure and lay there.
Did Krishna tell Arjuna "whatever you do, don' t kill anybody?" Those were his family members he was fixing to kill too.
Hopefully the soul is situated in a spiritual heart and not the physical heart, otherwise poor Juan's soul might be passing through the bowels of that coyote on it's way to a new birth!
Peace
karl
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WBraun
climber
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I’m not debating her being freed or bound, just giving proof of the existence of the soul. Those that want to deny the existence of the soul can do so. They also must prove summon bonum that it does not.
They will fail…………
Yes Karl the Mahabharata epic fought on the battlefield of Kurusetra is whole another topic. I will be burned at the stake for indulging in that topic here.
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akclimber
Trad climber
Eagle River, AK
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I have a religious question-Why is everyone treating the friggin' pope like he is God? He is only the leader of a man-made religious organization. My gawd! You'd think the dude was the most important guy on earth! He is just another old fart fixing to kick the bucket.
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WBraun
climber
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Explanations of what the brain is responsible for vary, but there is “something” the soul or spirit which is actually responsible for our emotions, personality, autonomy, consciousness, etc. This immaterial “soul” cannot be harmed by physical injury or illness.
Its ability to communicate with the physical world may be impaired, but it remains intact, and therefore what makes Terri Schiavo a person remains. She was still there, just not in a way that can be understood by those whose materialistic biases prejudice their judgments.
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Pope comes from the Sanskrit word Paap meaning sin and ha meaning removes, thus Paap-ha means remover of sin. So Paap-ha was the title and the function of the supreme pontiff attached to the Vedic administration. And from this came the shortened word Pope. 
Let us know!