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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I recently stayed with a couple of doctors who had no idea that polar bear liver produced vitamin A poisoning.
So is there any decision on the Hanson?
I'm currently watching Zulu on TCM's Michael Caine day (his first big role), a real hoot. Not the way things really happened but the movie turned me on to Rorke's Drift as a kid.
Just saw the scene where Jack Hawkins is hustled off screaming,
"You are all going to die!!
Die!
Die!
Death awaits you all!
Death awaits you all."
The character he played did exist though. "Reverend" Whit claimed to have survived BOTH Isandhlwana and the Drift but, despite a lecture tour, was at neither.
Anyway, if we DO do this one I want to reread The Zulu Wars as an adjunct.
Clamner is very detailed.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2008 - 11:09pm PT
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Bumping for rest of St'ers on the Book Club Thread. Ron, answer to next book on the ST August Book Club Thread on thread just below,,,,,I hope....miles of warm smiles, Lynne
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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So where is the White Death discussion?
I wanted to talk about the thieves and the forgiveness they got.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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The role of the ship's master is quite expansive. He is the undisputed leader of the ship. His responsibility is also expansive as his decisions affect the ship's crew, those decisions are often life-or-death. The ship's master has enormous legal powers, among which is the authority to use deadly force, suppress piracy and mutiny. The ship's master has absolute command.
In our story, Brusilov is the ship's master, and Albanov the first mate and navigation officer. Usually the navigation officer would be the second mate, but it was not so on this ill fated voyage.
Because of Brusilov's authority, Albanov would have had to be extremely discrete in questioning the decisions of the ship's master. Undoubtly, Albanov knew just where the ship was, how it was drifting in the ice, and probably made some pretty good guesses just how this whole affair would turn out.
Once the ship was trapped in the ice, it drifted over 1000 miles from October 1912
to April 1914, something like 2 miles a day, mostly north, that's 1.7 minutes of latitude a day. For the first 100 days of this imprisonment they were about 50 miles from the Yamal Peninsula. Albanov knew this.
He could not openly disagree with the ship's master, that would be insubordination punishable by death in the extreme case that that insubordination was deemed mutinous. But Albnov no doubt expressed his belief to Brusilov that he was being irresponsible.
In the end he asks permission of Brusilov to attempt to travel to land, and Brusilov accepts.
While it all seems ritualized to an extreme, it is the way ships at sea are run.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Speaking of vitamin A poisoning, it's also possible to get it from eating dog livers. Several polar explorers may have suffered from it. One of Mawson's companions during his epic return journey in 1913, during his 1911 - 14 expedition, may have died from it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Mawson
The British seem to have particularly liked liver and the other internal organs of bears and other animals they ate, which left them more vulnerable to trichonosis, vitamin A poisoning, and such. That, and undercooking due to lack of fuel, which would mean more parasites survived being cooked.
But they were often malnourished and suffering from vitamin deficiencies in any case. Amazing men.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Interestingly, the coordinates on Google Earth don't quite match those in the book, on page xxxiii, if I take the coordinates that Albanov gives on page 27. It is an amazing feat that any of them got back alive.
The straight line drift was 786 miles, almost due north.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2008 - 01:22am PT
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This is indeed a great book that needs to be discussed. Think we are having some thread problems which we WILL get straightened out.
Will sort it out tomorrow, but if you have time please post some of your thoughts tonight...
Albanov was a very special individual. The time frame of this epic adventure was so very different than much that happened in this era. The problem solving of Albanov's time was written on a different layer of life than compared to today.
One might want to say Albanov was the stonemaster of his epic tour. He sucked it up, went forward and pulled those along with him that wanted to go and survive.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2008 - 01:27am PT
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So, all who read the book, who would have shot the thieves .... ? It's a very valid question and one that needs to be discussed. I'll sign in tomorrow. Smiles, Lynne
NIGHT !
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2008 - 01:30am PT
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Thanks as always to you that give us the info !!! Ed and Mighty Hiker, Piton Ron....et al you guys are the best...continue forward.... : ) Lynne
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I think it would have been appropriate to seize back the resources they stole and exclude them from the group under threat of death. After all, they had already done nothing less.
As for Albanov's authority, as alluded to, he really had none. He was a leader only because he showed initiative and seemed (at least at times) to know the way to land.
I am reminded of the german advisor George Washington had employed who was so exasperated by having to explain why everything was done. That it required two sets of interpreters did not help.
I think Albanov showed remarkable patience and tenacity.
Had others heeded him more there would likely have been more survivors.
What I want to know is what happened to the pet polar bear cubs,..
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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I would like to think that I wouldn't have killed the thieves, but it's hard to know. Sounds like Konrad, as one of the strongest turned out to be and asset to Albanov.
I wondered about the bear cubs too. I'll definitely never see walruses the same way again. I always thought of them as More like Tennesee Tuxedo's pal Chumley. Hmm, that geographic incoqgruency ahd never occured to me, before.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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an eye for an eye, Ron?
Here's another way to talk about the thieves and bring it into a more daily idiom;
How many of us have granted or recived forgiveness for guilty acts and said forgivness worked out optimally for all concerned? I can think of times in my own life where I've been at each of the poles, and it worked. Now, as much as I respect Lynne's perspective, mine comes from a slightly different place, even if it sounds the same (convergent evolution?)
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