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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 29, 2005 - 08:47pm PT
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hell, I'd like to hear what you believe to be the correct answer. spill the beans?
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 29, 2005 - 10:26pm PT
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Your're not ready for it yet!
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bigwalling
climber
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Jan 30, 2005 - 02:29pm PT
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the correct answer is... well f*#k I don't know werners but mine is f*#king shoot them with a weapon of your choice. A high powered rifle with a scope will do an on the wall job at the offending sackless coward.
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OW
Trad climber
Patagonia
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Jan 30, 2005 - 02:31pm PT
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Heyduke lives in Werner and Burt!
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Jan 30, 2005 - 02:43pm PT
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"I called up big BURT he said it’s a done deal."
Sadly, here again, I agree with Jody (though actually the climbing community at large probably thinks the same). Yes, you are a wise man, Werner. Before any of us do *anything* we should consult with BURT BRONSON.
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Jan 30, 2005 - 04:10pm PT
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"Well then, I think we should all row a boat across the river from now on….no, no maybe fu-cking start swimming, ha ha ha. The original first crossing was done this way. Those bridges have really altered the route and experience, there're chickensh-t! I think I’ll blow up the first bridge that you’ll have to cross to get to Yosemite. Oh yes and I forgot I have to blow up all the frigging roads too. Everybody walk now. Walking or riding the horse is the right way. Yes Yes this the chosen path. We start tomorrow."
I think we should just sport bolt the whole thing. I mean that is how most people climb these days and it is way more conveniant for everyone. I mean that is why we built those bridges right? Besides placing gear isn't safe and expecting subsequent parties to do the same sketchy sh#t that you did is outrageous. I think firsta ascent parties should be liable for the safety of the parties that follow. Not drilling bolts where injury is a possibility is simply irresponsible and just creates junk routes for the elite. I shall start with the Bachar-Yerian!
Extremes can be taken in both directions. It will always be an argument about where to draw the line and belittling either side isn't productive at all. There is no 'other' way to have the discussion than to discuss the point at which we decide things are acceptable or unacceptable.
Many years ago one of my best friends wanted to try a route in Zion that I was not comfortable with because of my skill level, and it seemed potentially out of his reach as well. We had no beta on the route other than the guidebook. He had recently scavanged a bolt kit from the free box at school and when I brought up the possibility of one of the pitches being way too sketchy, his response was "well, that is why we will have the bolt kit." I found that totally unacceptable and said as much.
Chicken bolts are a scar and people should be embarassed to ever place them. Hell, people should feel compelled to remove them if they ever put one in. They are going to happen though but if we don't discourage their use then every route will some day be no harder than A2+. I personally may never climb harder than that, but I'm ok with there being routes that I can't do.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 30, 2005 - 04:37pm PT
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Bridges were built to cross over to the other side. Remember now….the other side. Nothing to do with convenience unless you are looking at it from a mundane point of view. Not an easy one to see. It can take literally lifetimes to understand the real meaning.
“Extremes can be taken in both directions. It will always be an argument about where to draw the line and belittling either side isn't productive at all. There is no 'other' way to have the discussion than to discuss the point at which we decide things are acceptable or unacceptable.”
That’s very true. My point was never meant to belittle anyone. I was just to show how we sometimes can easily fall into a trap thru our thinking, this applies to myself also. That’s why later I said in relation to the original topic about bolts added to existing aid climbs.
There’s a lot of people who feel that way (bolts added, wrong), then there’s a lot of people who feel the other way (bolts add is ok). The correct answer is what’s important.
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Sandpoint, Idaho
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Jan 30, 2005 - 04:47pm PT
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Werner, I'm going out on a limb here with a guess. The correct answer would be:
IT JUST DOES NOT TRULY MATTER
The world has a way of setting herself straight when it suits her anyway.
Reachin, I know......
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 30, 2005 - 05:00pm PT
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It may not matter to some, but it most definately matters to others...
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 30, 2005 - 06:08pm PT
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"It may not matter to some, but it most definately matters to others..."
Yes, and to those it does, they need to find the TRUTH, for that will set them free.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 30, 2005 - 07:49pm PT
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{rolleyes}
oh,please...are you on acid or something? Is that why you keep talking about seeing patterns here?
There is only one truth when it comes to those new bolts on WDD, and it is they will soon be gone.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 30, 2005 - 08:28pm PT
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Huh? Acid, somebody say acid? Got any more?
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Jan 30, 2005 - 08:53pm PT
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How this digresses :)
I'd love to hear your actual opinion on this Werner. Somehow I doubt you are an 'anything goes' kind of guy on this issue, though a style zealot you are certainly not, at least not when it comes to other people.
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Moof
Trad climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Nor. CA
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Jan 30, 2005 - 09:28pm PT
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Anyone know what type they are? I wouldn't want to go up there with any more extra gear than necessary to get them out.
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bigwalling
climber
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Jan 30, 2005 - 09:48pm PT
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wtf... all you need is a f*#king adjustable wrench and a hammer.. bring the patching sh#t too. Moof have you ever even chopped a bolt?
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 30, 2005 - 11:31pm PT
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Spinnmaster
In a nutshell, I’m the guy in the background who’s always trying to bring the best out of you, if your happy then we all benefit. It’s not so much about me, but you. I’m a pretty ordinary intermediate climber who’s had the luck of the draw to be able to hang with the extraordinary. These guys are unbelievable…they and you are the front runners who say and shape the mold. I try and stay out of it…not my bag really. I know where I belong, and I’m happy there.
Werner
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Jan 31, 2005 - 12:55am PT
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Werner you and I know that is total bullsh#t. Intermediate climber....I'M an intermediate climber and I struggle on climbs that you free solo. Modesty is fine but I think you are stretching it. I understand if you want to keep your opinion and that is fine but you don't have to fib to do it :-)
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 31, 2005 - 01:05am PT
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No fibbing …. its relative, When climbing with the likes of Bridwell, Kauk, Bachar, Bard, Largo, Grammici, Croft etc. you feel like an intermediate very quickly. The soloing doesn't come into play.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 31, 2005 - 01:27am PT
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I am an intermediate climber too...and that's why I don't want intermediate trade routes like WDD to be littered with new bolts by the likes of free climbers.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 31, 2005 - 01:46am PT
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I just googled Nostroclimbus and he said there will be waves and waves of bolts added to existing intermediate aid routes….the future looks bleak. But on the positive note he said eBay will have killer deals on crowbars.
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