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BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
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Nov 17, 2010 - 01:48pm PT
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Urmas
Social climber
Sierra Eastside
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Nov 17, 2010 - 09:00pm PT
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Hi to Scott Cole and Zappa Dave! Good to hear from you after so long.
The "line of strength" issue in slab climbing is interesting. Bolting a line that is more direct, but harder than an other, more circuitous line nearby would be considered contrived by some. I believe that part of the art to establishing a classic long slab route is in discerning the "line of weakness" from among many possibilities. Forcing a straight line, rather than reading the weaknesses in the rock seems to me to be motivated by the desire to establish a monument to oneself. Finding the weakness on the other hand, is the more crafty approach. One of the joys of putting up face climbs is in discovering the subtly lower angled or more featured path that makes a section amazingly easier than one expected. One can leave the more direct variation for a later ascent.
This is in no way intended as a critcism of Ghostfromthepast, or anyone else. I'm really just articulating debates I've had with myself and partners in similar circumstances.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Nov 17, 2010 - 09:23pm PT
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Maybe the controversy adds to the legend. Maybe it's all good now. Too bad slab climbing isn't cool anymore, if it ever was.
sweet thread. Glad to see it revived by Zappa Dave, whom I think I went to college with?
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BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
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Nov 17, 2010 - 09:43pm PT
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Matt M
Trad climber
Alamo City
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Apr 15, 2011 - 04:51pm PT
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Bump for for inspiration in the new Spring Season.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 15, 2011 - 06:08pm PT
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Love the route up to the "hang" (pitch 7)
although I'm feeling a little old and wise to lead that stuff again. God protect me from thinking otherwise!
peace
karl
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Apr 16, 2011 - 05:44pm PT
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Ghostfromthepast: It’s no news to readers of the thread that Mirrors and several other climbs of the day were the focus of much controversy. But just for the record, my old Tricksters and Traditionalist article (can hardly believe it was 1984 Ascent) named it among others in the introduction, as per: “At the other end of the Valley, on Glacier Point Apron, a string of aid bolts is placed to protect free climbing on Hall of Mirrors. Reportedly, protection without aid was possible, but on a less direct line. The route is then touted as one of the greatest new free climbs in Yosemite.”
“Reportedly” was a key word because as with other bolt ladders placed by standing on some or all of the bolts, it was unclear exactly what did happen – as you call it, “mystery.” First ascent parties were understandably reluctant to do what you did on this thread in your “confession,” given the anger, self righteousness and divisions roaring on all sides. You have done a great thing for all who understand the history of a route enriches our experience of it and climbing more generally. You also have given a very personal and forthcoming insight into style transitions of the time, also valuable to those interested in how and why we climb as much as what we climb. And, I suspect, you have done something good for yourself too in coming from such honesty. Bravo.
As I look back, I see now the period of changing styles in the 70’s and 80’s first went through a phase of using aid with trepidation to protect free climbing, feelings sometimes mixed with guilt and anger. Then, others made the complete break and, in effect, said screw the old guard on how to protect. We will not pretend or obfuscate or hesitate, nor push the limits of standing on nothing and drilling and instead simply rap bolt, so there. And so, sport climbing was born. I think now the sport climbing transition was a good thing compared to the fuming, bolt chopping and even physical fights preceding it because it brought the style issues into the open and to a head. Climbers then could get on with fiery disagreements and defenses on both sides without near armed warfare. One camp didn’t have to feel inferior, just different, and the other could disagree but now could see righteousness, threats and intimidation were not only ineffective but ripping apart the climbing community. In some places, the result was some grudging, unstated compromise as to which cliffs would be sport and which trad, or full on open agreements on a particular style for an area, as ground up only in Pinnacles. Not to say the controversy doesn’t rise from time to time, with flashes of trepidation or anger, but all feels more healthy and settled than in the transition period.
Karl: You ask about Hinterland. Now and then I got the urge to do cruddy big climbs in Yosemite because, well, they were there and went up the big walls and got you high up into areas less traveled, often with stellar views too. Have to say, Hinterland is an adventure all right, but pretty awful overall. Not only is it dirty but felt a bit dangerous too. I don’t remember it too well, but recall some moderate climbing through a jungle above Coonyard, over an arch, then left into an arch system to the Oasis. From there, after searching around, we went almost a rope length to the left until finding a trough, then up it, over an overhang, then more left leading climbing to a hard and not too clear part: a traverse left to a big ledge area. From there, it’s a short way to the big bowl above. The climbing goes out of the right side of the bowl, I remember, but from there it’s pretty vague, but moderate slabs and a little final cliff band. It’s pretty fine to come out at the Glacier Point railings for one of the all time views.
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Apr 16, 2011 - 09:49pm PT
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Here is a shot of the topo of that "cruddy big climb," aka, The Hinterland from when Kamps and I did the first ascent. I rather enjoyed the adventure and don't recall any problems with the Oasis. It is what it is, to some a sanctuary and to others an obstacle to fight thru. But then again I am quite fond of trees and plants.
Oh, and on rare occasions there is the opportunity to encounter an Island Girl, just hanging out, soaking up the sun and fauna of the Oasis.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Apr 17, 2011 - 02:05am PT
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still trying to figure out how my epic day with Sacherer on GPA fits with all the other stories and accomplishments in that area and era
obviously there was much more going on than i ever had any idea about until recently
and seriously wishing Frank was still around...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 17, 2011 - 05:13am PT
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I have a perverse desire to do the hinterland, after doing Galactic Hitchhiker just about every year
Why not? Is it that bad?
PEace
Karl
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Apr 17, 2011 - 03:45pm PT
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Tom
You might have missed this as I posted it on the Sacherer Thread a while back. Maybe this will jolt your memory cells? Appears here, you were going to climb the established route from Coonyard to the Oasis and up?
"Funny, how several pages from the old Coonyard Register can tie-in a list of personalities, eras, sagas and tales.
We have Cochrane's epic with Sacherer, Chela as part of his early climbing career and Boo who was rejected by Frank for an early Apron ascent. Good to see Qamar, Raymond, Kamps, Rowell and frequent Coonyard aficionado Beck in the picture to boot.
Register courtesy of the Mountain Record Collection of the Bancroft Library UC Berkeley."
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Apr 17, 2011 - 09:41pm PT
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Guido, If you look at my verbal description of the Hinterland and compare it to the topo, the two seem pretty close. However, your topo seems to imply going DOWN from a fixed pin before a big traversing area. Did I read that right? I don't recall fixed pro or down climbing to get on with the traverse leading to the pitch to the bowl. Maybe I forgot, but I do remember the traverse was pretty hard and pretty out there. Hmm, maybe I was off route..
Karl, There was loose rock on the climb when we did it, and dirt and lots of growth of one sort or another. Dangerous? Probably not very if careful.
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Apr 17, 2011 - 10:26pm PT
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Here is my orignal write-up on the Hinterland, maybe it will clarify things a bit?
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Apr 17, 2011 - 10:42pm PT
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This might be more readable?
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Apr 18, 2011 - 06:39pm PT
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Guido,
Very interesting. Seems you did an aid pendulum on the FA of Hinterland which Bob followed free, with a fixed piton up high to protect the traverse, which you then pulled the rope through after the traverse. Interesting how the history of routes gets deeper and more exact with delving. Brings to mind another climb Bob followed free where leader used a bit of aid, if I read your description right. Same thing happened on Fairview Dome regular route, where Mort Hemple used a point of aid and Bob followed free, the first all free ascent of the route though the record books show Roper and Powell doing the first free in 1962, presumably because both did all moves free.
At any rate, the traverse is coming back to me. I found no fixed pin, but do remember climbing down some (didn't seem 30 feet but maybe) then left across tricky face wondering about falling and swinging back. The second following this area also has to wonder about swinging. High protection and pull through probably would be a good idea, but I don't think we did so because we left nothing behind. So there's a point for others to ponder if they don't find a fixed piton - maybe bring something to leave.
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Apr 18, 2011 - 07:30pm PT
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Cool, Tom-makes sense after all these years, (yikes almost 50), have to go with the written history. I remember writing this while sitting thru a mechanical draw class lecture in high school. Teacher was an avid sailor and got me interested in sailing for the first time. C'est la vie.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Apr 18, 2011 - 09:11pm PT
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Thanks very much, Guido; I did see that Coonyard summit log when you posted it earlier, and was very surprised to see it. I would not have guessed that there was any evidence left of our climb other than my memories of line itself with no bolts or fixed pins.
Sacherer told me we were doing an entirely new route once we got above Coonyard; something other than the Coonyard to Oasis route or Hinterland. Our route seriously needed some bolts, at least for belays. We were run out to the max for about three pitches with no real pro, and we didn't carry a bolt kit.
High up, I led a pitch with no pro except a very sketchy belay; Sacherer led the next to a death stance with no viable anchor; and I led the next with no pro to a well protected belay on an area of broken ledges that I'm guessing was well to the left of the Oasis.
I'd never go back there without knowing there were bolts or a way to place them. I would have felt a lot more comfortable with Kamps and/or Higgins and a bolt kit.
I don't recall ever going to something like the Oasis. I'd still like to go back up there with someone who knows all the routes, and try to figure out where Frank and I went. I clearly remember some of the pitches. Last summer I did find the starting pitches that we did that day, but my partner was not up for going higher.
Edit: Possibly Frank had intended to follow the previously established lines; but he indicated otherwise to me at the time; and it was all news to me. I was not familiar with those routes then or now; just the one line we took that day. I do find it hard to believe that what we were climbing above Coonyard had been done before; if only because of the lack of protection; not even a bolt for a belay stance. Does someone know whether the previously climbed Coonyard to Oasis and Hinterland routes had any bolts at the time?
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Apr 18, 2011 - 09:30pm PT
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"Sea of Friction"-prior to GPS, we all had to rely on dead reckoning.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 18, 2011 - 11:24pm PT
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The other route that goes to the rim is Galactic Hitchhiker.
A fine route (could use an extra bolt or two that the FA Party admitted they meant to go back and place but didn't get around to it on pitch 18, 19 and 20 of the topo, otherwise well protected) Almost all the fixed angles of the route have fallen out by now too and some belay pins too!
Topo is here
http://www.yosemiteclimber.com/Galactic_HitchhikerTopo.html
Trip report here
http://www.yosemiteclimber.com/Galactic_Hitchhiker.html
This route would have been controversial too but nobody gave a crap about Apron heroics by the time they did it
peace
karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:16am PT
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So my big confusion about the Hinterland is where it traverses out from the overhang above the oasis. Anybody want to guess where the hinterland traverse is compared to where GH climbs a slab to a ledge to a corner and over the corner on pitch 17 and 18 below?
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