Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Jan 28, 2008 - 07:17pm PT
|
You want to see the Spider Line Death Photo's? Or is it still to fresh?
Juan
|
|
WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 28, 2008 - 07:32pm PT
|
I'm going nuts waiting out this weather, Locker. Let me know.
I've been climbing that route once a year or so for forty plus years, and I can't imagine getting any pro other than into the little crack on the left face about two thirds the way up. We used to put a short angle up under it. It now takes a small stopper up and right. Did he have the 3.5 in the crack in the back? I can't put this together; wish I'd been there.
|
|
Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
|
|
|
Jan 28, 2008 - 08:25pm PT
|
"Upper Right Ski Track Death Belay? What's that?"
The leader had his last piece at about 60% up the route. He then topped out and went over to the rap bolts to belay. So it was like a 5.3 version of the Toe Jam Death Belay, only with a ~40-50' potential penji instead of a 20' one.
I've seen a bunch of BS on the top of intersection rock (even taking out Locker and Woody). My favorite was a dude who actually for once made a natural belay, but then did the equalization by clipping the gear into pockets of a daisy and using one of the pockets as the power point. Where's that soylent green recipe when you need it.
|
|
travelin_light
Trad climber
california
|
|
|
Jan 28, 2008 - 09:11pm PT
|
Its not a big deal to belay at the bolts if you put a piece in the horizontal to protect the follower (talking about Toe Jam). Provided you clip both bolts! Sheesh! Can't believe that photo.
|
|
Darren D.
Social climber
|
|
|
Jan 28, 2008 - 09:22pm PT
|
It is KNOTT a good idea to belay at the fixed bolts even with a directional as this clogs up the repel for approximately five routes. Do the right thing and learn how to build an anchor.
|
|
u4ick
Trad climber
temecula, ca
|
|
|
Jan 28, 2008 - 09:38pm PT
|
I did not take the time to read all posts, so somebody might have already mentioned this... those are not belay bolts! they are repel chains!(unless on bearded cabbage)PLEASE stop wearing them down with anchors and top ropes! please learn how to build and trust traditional anchors... I hate raping off worn down chains or wasting webbing in situations that i should not have too.
Glad to here your OK! Toe Jam is a classic 5.7! but remember its a j tree 5.7 witch tends to be a little harder than a gym 5.7
BE SAFE! WEAR YOUR BRAIN BUCKET AT ALL TIMES! ITS NOT A FASHION SHOW...
cheers~
|
|
WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2008 - 01:43am PT
|
Come on Locker, you know we can fix it up. Bring your toy and we'll lay about five bolts on the upper crack of Toe Jam, then run like hell.
|
|
slayton
Trad climber
Morongo Valley, Ca
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2008 - 05:49am PT
|
I realize that bolts on Double Cross is a longstanding joke/troll.
But. . .. .. when you say:
"I doubt it would go over big...
but due to the amount of n00bs that climb that route in particular...
poppoing in some anchors might not be such a bad thing... "
I have to wonder. If you start slamming in those kind of convenience bolts where does it end? Sure, there is a high number of "noobs" on that route due to its being right there in the heart of Hidden Valley and its accesiblility and its "easy" rating. But what happens when these "noobs" stretch out and decide to visit other areas? Should all classics within a certain rating be "accessible" or convenience bolted for belay?
In this day and age how does one learn the basics of climbing safely?
My appologies for the further thread drift. Coldrainsnow, I'm glad that you're mostly ok and wish you a speedy recovery.
|
|
ThomasKeefer
Trad climber
Between Tuscano and Liguria, Italia
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2008 - 09:29am PT
|
About the gear being tricky on the crack of toe jam...
This is nonsense! Two of the best nutplacements you could ever dream up are there. The first can be slotted from the comfort of the small ledge right beneath the crack and the other once you are in your first 'toe jam'
The photo that happiegirl posted shows these two placements.
As for the anchor.. there is no reason to not build and anchor right at the top. There is more than enough gear to be found (perfect horizontal crack in the ditch at the top there.
|
|
Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2008 - 09:38am PT
|
More appropriate would be to have the guidebook call Doubler Cross 5.7+ PG13 or something to better reflect the runout to the crack and what some folks find to be a tricky first move to protect. Better yet, make a note in the guidebook of "Gear to 3", and one #10 Hex", then everyone would have a bomber first piece, and there would be fewer deaths.
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2008 - 11:12am PT
|
Instead of bolting Toe Jam's anchor, Locker - you could make a little laminated index card with "This is not Toe Jam's belay" and tie it to the bolt hanger with a twist-tie..... Then, when ever anyone chopped the DC bolt, you could come back with "and they swiped my twisty-tie death belay warning card too!"
By the way(Locker and other S/Topians) - I'm heading over in the middle/end of March. Maybe I will lead Toe Jam this time. I promise I'll use the stance belay with some gear for backup.
|
|
scuffy b
climber
Stump with a backrest
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2008 - 12:16pm PT
|
Woody, about the Flake cluster...
You didn't know about the 3.5 Camalot placement
because you climb it 4 feet left of the (narrow part of the)
crack, out where it's easy chimney until that placement in
the thin crack to the left.
I've done that climb every time I've been there (admittedly not
a lot), watched numerous parties there.
Almost everybody wants to be in as far as possible, then they
complain about the sandbag rating.
Stay as far out as possible and things go well.
|
|
WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2008 - 12:34pm PT
|
Scuffy,
You're correct
Addendum to all this fun: I've been trying for a long time to set the noobie routes aside as a singular set for special protection. A few old timers get together and define them, all in the main campground area, then protect the route in a manner that eliminates most of the threat due to inexperience and noobie stupidity. This doesn't go over well with the Vatican. I even brought forth my lead on the FFA of Double Cross to claim a right to do as I wish with a bolt or two. You'd be surprised at how fast that little trad rule was disposed of with the assertion that --Oh well, you may not be the first. You, of course, could say that about lots in JT going way back. I gave up at that point. My feeling was, if that kind a of cr%p is going to be the way this issue is handled, let it go.
|
|
Joe
Social climber
Santa Cruz Mountains/Los Gatos
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2008 - 01:01pm PT
|
Yeah Steve, my experience on the flake is the same. easy climbing, but no gear for about the first 20 feet or so.
was the toe jam accident climber an Edge regular?
|
|
WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2008 - 01:17pm PT
|
Fattrad,
Now, now. There is a way that's quick and bypasses the unpleasantness. Dick Webster used to run up and leap into it. The lift and momentum are crucial but can be mastered with practice. I once attempted this coup; but due to my height--5'9"--my lift wasn't adequate. After coming to, I decided to do it the old way. Further, after having climbed it two or three times over the years, one day I ask myself "why".
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, Ca
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2008 - 01:17pm PT
|
Woody, What's up with all this hogwash about bolting up the so called noob routes in Josh? Much better to just put up a big sign at the entrance with directions to New Jack, eh?
|
|
Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2008 - 01:52pm PT
|
Fattrad,
Now, now. There is a way that's quick and bypasses the unpleasantness. Dick Webster used to run up and leap into it. The lift and momentum are crucial but can be mastered with practice. I once attempted this coup; but due to my height--5'9"--my lift wasn't adequate. After coming to, I decided to do it the old way. Further, after having climbed it two or three times over the years, one day I ask myself "why".
Here's the P Girl stylin' it...static, at a whoppin' 5'6"...
I think I did it a couple different ways. One involved a layback to the right, methinks. Awkward little bugger...
You could always go for the time honored "partner assist" too...
Cheers,
-Brian in SLC
|
|
scuffy b
climber
Stump with a backrest
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2008 - 01:56pm PT
|
Joe,
not an Edge regular but closely connected to a semi-regular.
|
|
WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2008 - 02:01pm PT
|
Ksolem,
In a sense true. However, sooner or later they'll need to learn how to place pro; that seems to be the problem.
Oh yes, the old lieback from the right. That's the way I used to do it. Nowdays, due to wear and tear, you might plan on having to replace your left kneecap. I've slapped my foot up there a couple of times in the last year or two and decided no way.
|
|
Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2008 - 02:54pm PT
|
Seems like I popped my foot up, rocked over whilst slidin' into a mantle, and voila. Although I also dimly recall some type of double gaston thing too.
Great problem.
Cheers,
-Brian in SLC
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!