Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
|
|
|
Dec 15, 2007 - 11:56pm PT
|
"Just curious---did anyone read Anna Karenina in Russian text?"
"I did, Jennie...and since I don't know Russian, it was a bitch to understand! :-) "
HaHaHaHa!
Someone (?) said eloquence is logic on fire. The logic was there in the Garnett translation of Anna K but I guess I missed the fire.
I thought Tolstoys most eloquent writing was his second epilogue to War and Peace. But I only read English translations.
|
|
Anastasia
Trad climber
California
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2007 - 01:47am PT
|
I read the iliad in Greek and it still didn't work until I learned to read it in Ionic/Homeric Greek. Only in that version did the story form into a dactylic hexameter and rocked my socks off.
In it's oldest form it rhymes into a song just in general reading form! You read it normal and the actual words beats into a song!
It is brilliant!
AF
|
|
Risk
Mountain climber
Minkler, CA
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2007 - 02:55am PT
|
Andy, Thanks for the Russian tips. As I said earlier, I became hooked on Russian history with Nicholas and Alexander by Massie, and now the stack of books grows taller each month. I already tackled Gulag Archipelago; keep going. . . . My favorite quote from it:
“What about the main thing in life, all its riddles? If you want, I'll spell it out for you right now. Do not pursue what is illusory--property and position: all that is gained at the expense of your nerves decade after decade, and is confiscated in one fell night. Live with a steady superiority over life-- don't be afraid of misfortune, and do not yearn after happiness; it is, after all, all the same: the bitter doesn't last forever, and the sweet never fills the cup to overflowing. It is enough if you don't freeze in the cold, and if thirst and hunger don't claw at your insides. If your back isn't broken, if your feet can walk, if both arms can bend, if both eyes see, and if both ears hear, then whom should you envy? And why? Our envy of others devours us most of all. Rub your eyes and purify your heart--and prize above all else in the world those who love you and who wish you well. Do not hurt them or scold them, and never part from any of them in anger; after all, you simply do not know: it might be your last act before your arrest, and that will be how you are imprinted in their memory!”
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2007 - 03:39am PT
|
"I read the iliad in Greek and it still didn't work until I learned to read it in Ionic/Homeric Greek. Only in that version did the story form into a dactylic hexameter and rocked my socks off.
In it's oldest form it rhymes into a song just in general reading form! You read it normal and the actual words beats into a song!
It is brilliant!
AF "
Yes, a knowledge of ancient Greek dialects, Homeric Greek, Epic greek would be indespensible tools in understanding the whole context of ancient classics. And many early Christian texts were written in Koine Greek.
There are numerous translations of the Iliad and those in English aren't really that close to one another. Much better to receive it in the same meaning, context and meter the ancients did. (Unfortunately, I didn't have opportunities in classical studies or historical linguistics until I transfered to Utah State Univ. )
Classics are most relevant in the language they were created, if you understand the language, of course. But with works of more modern western european writers like Victor Hugo, the writers social conscience, political orientation translate into English quite well.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
The West
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2007 - 01:29pm PT
|
jennie, Anna k, по-рускии is too long a project for me.
I've read the overcoat, notes from the underground, The nose, Crocodil, White nights and some others in their mother tonque, generally over college xmas breaks, with a dictionary at my side, back in the old old days.
Right now I'm stealing time from school work reading Nature Girl-Carl Hiiasen
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2007 - 01:37pm PT
|
wonderful thread title, especially if you use the other meaning... i.e. the last book you will ever read...
...for thread drift, what are your thoughts on that book?
|
|
L
climber
The Late Great Planet Earth
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2007 - 02:03pm PT
|
Ed,
My thoughts on that are:
I hope it's How To Reach Enlightenment In 4 Easy Steps
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
The West
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2007 - 06:08pm PT
|
well, it only goes, East, from there...
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2007 - 06:44pm PT
|
Jaybro,
But its great you have read some of the Russian classics in the mother tongue. I only learned German and Latin, no Russian, Greek or French.
Seems like a lot of people loved Anna K. I suppose I didn't develop "sympatico" with the characters, except Levin and family. My favorite novel has been Thomas Wolfe's Look Homeward, Angel but others have told me they thought it was shapeless or confusing. (That's Thomas Wolfe the novelist from the 1920's and 1930's, rather than the modern writer Tom Wolfe.)
Reading taste vary widely I guess.
|
|
Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
|
Dec 17, 2007 - 01:32pm PT
|
nutjob, My System is entertaining as all get out.
Anastasia, reading Homer like that must be a real treat.
|
|
Fletcher
Trad climber
Varied locales along the time and space continuum
|
|
|
Dec 17, 2007 - 04:24pm PT
|
Wow Anastasia, that's great about the Iliad! One of my objectives for college (inspired by a great teacher I had when I was about 16 or so) was to read the Odyssey in the original Greek. In college I studied Classics and read bits and pieces but never got good enough (especially with the Homeric Greek) to really read the whole thing. Both the Iliad and the Odyssey are fantastic literature. The Odyssey, in particular, has continued to influence me throughout my life. A very rich tale.
I even once cited it in a resignation letter. :-)
Back on topic: Last book I completed may have been Lord of the Rings and that was a while back... with my little kids, I find I fare better with magazines time-wise. I have the perpetual pile of books to read by the bed.
I saw Fatal Mountaineer abut Will Unsoeld in the bookstore last night. Might pick that one up.
Fletch
|
|
BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
|
|
|
Dec 17, 2007 - 04:52pm PT
|
Fall Of the Phantom Lord by Andrew Todhunter
has to be the worst book i've ever read. i want hear about the wild man Osman not some wannbe writer hang dogging up a 5.10, riding a motercycle then scuba diving in a river.
The book SUCKED
|
|
scuffy b
climber
Stump with a backrest
|
|
|
Dec 17, 2007 - 06:25pm PT
|
Jennie, do you read the others in Wolfe's trilogy?
Was one time enough for the others?
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
|
|
|
Dec 17, 2007 - 10:06pm PT
|
Scuffy B:
I believe I’ve read most all of Thomas Wolfe’s work that has been made public. I have four anthologies of his work plus his novels in single form. He left an immense collection of unpublished fragments. I assume most of his more prolific work has been published.
My opinion is that Look Homeward, Angel was his most important novel but I’ve reread much of his writing over and over since high school.
Some surveys don’t even include LHA in the top 200 novels of English language. Faulkner called him the most important American novelist and Somerset Maugham listed LHA as one of the ten greatest novels. Opinions vary widely.
He wasn’t a great plot master. But his prose is some of the most beautiful in the English language.
|
|
darod
Big Wall climber
South Side Billburg
|
|
|
Dec 17, 2007 - 10:33pm PT
|
I'm on such a roll, just finished reading two great books, "The Brief Wondrous Life Of Oscar Wao", by Junot Diaz. Then a couple of days later, in a few hours I read "Distant Star" by Roberto Bolaño. Both books very recommended.
Need a break now!
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
The West
|
|
|
Dec 17, 2007 - 11:20pm PT
|
Fascinating, Jennie. What is it that attracts us to these various things? Look homeward... didn't seem to work for me (I suspect I was too young) and I moved on, may catch with me later or would have earlier, can't say, yet. The "electric koolaid acid test'-T wolf held my interst for several books.
I had no reason to be intriqued and influenced by the russians, as I was as a teenager-midtwenties, from suburban Chicago/SF bay Area n00b background, but much of that has stuck with me.
If I have time tonight, after school work, I'm going b ack to Carl Hiaassen
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Dec 18, 2007 - 01:46am PT
|
hey there anastasia.. say, that is really neat stuff about the greek, etc, and the Illiad.. and the original, etc...
i see how wonderful it would have THEN been for you...
i wrote a book and some novels, BUT the way i wrote them, would never make sense, if they were translated--parts are done in a certain kind of word use that if translated, literally, would throw someone wayyyyyyyyyyy off course..
thanks for the great share...
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Dec 18, 2007 - 02:10am PT
|
I guess it depends on whether the intent = the action. I have several books I mean to read. Really. They're in a pile. In fact, possibly in several heaps. However, the ones I'm actually reading at the moment - I usually have a few on the go at once - are:
Beowulf: An Illustrated Edition (Seamus Heaney)
Illustrated History of the Arctic
A Man on The Moon (Andrew Chaikin) - A very good summary of the Apollo Moon landing.
Kristin Lavransdatter (Sigrid Undset, new translation)
I agree with the comments upthread - it's nice to be able to read original versions, and translations almost always are inferior. Beowulf, for example, is not only in old English, but in verse. Kristin Lavransdatter is in a deliberately archaic form of Norwegian, but still won the Nobel Prize.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
The West
|
|
|
Dec 18, 2007 - 03:01am PT
|
Amother good reason to read 'Grendel'
|
|
quietpartner
Trad climber
Moantannah
|
|
|
Dec 18, 2007 - 12:22pm PT
|
"Charlie Wilson's War"
Bloody interesting! Renegades from the CIA and Congress maneuver behind the scenes to help oust the Russians from Afghanistan. Reads like a spy novel, but it's supposed to be true.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!