Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
|
|
You mean if Randy apologizes he gets to call you a whiner and
everything will be fine?
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2007 - 02:34pm PT
|
I apologize to Andy Ward for climbing a line he had wire-brushed and trundled, a day of hard work for him, back in 1987. Another climber and I made the FA of his line kind of by accident, after climbing a different first pitch, but I've felt bad about our ascent ever since. Andy never whined about the affront though, at least not to me.
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
|
|
MH - I'd go along with guides containing "contributor" info. Sounds good.
For situations such as The Nose, which you mentioned, everyone should definitely be credited, who was involved. However, I'd still say that only the three who topped out get the FA. You can't be part of the FA if you didn't top out on the FA.
This thread supports that. Craig has stated that Randy stole the FA from him. Even if he gets credit as a contributor (which he has here) he will still feel jilted. Someone stole his FA.
I can understand this. This was talked about, briefly in another thread about Barber, Fish Crack and all kinds of things. If I spend the time cleaning something and some yahoo comes up and sends it the next day, I'm going to be pretty bent. At the least, we'd have words about this obnoxious, brash behavior and, at the least, I'd expect an apology down the road. Seems pretty reasonable. It's kinda like someone walking into your bosses office and collecting your paycheck for the last two weeks of *your* work.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
Well, while we're all coming clean, I was probably the perpetrator of the most shameless route thievery imaginable.
Ken Stickter and about ten other guys were working all day on what later turned out to be the classic route, "Black Tide," 5.8 (or whatever it is). The boys worked all day on the thing and got all the bolts in but bailed owing to darkness. I can't remember how it came down but we sneaked in there and dashed up the thing before they returned and we had the gall to call it "Stickter Quits." Of course we didn't bother to put in any belay bolts or any of that so when the "fist ascent" party came back and finished the thing they saw the chalk marks and had to wonder but credit went to them anyway and that's fine by me.
JL
|
|
brotherbbock
Trad climber
|
|
Wow Larry, look what our little climb last weekend strarted! Awesome thread, it's great reading the posts from all you guys out there! Once again great weekend Larry. -brian
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
JL, I still call it Stichter Quits, but I was aware of the story of you jumping on it. Using your name SQ, gives the climb a story to it. Black Tide is a cool name though and you can see the black tide from so far away, makes me wonder why it didn't get put up sooner.
Oh, it's a cool route too! Although I always thought Double Dip was a bit harder because of all the frictioning involved going through the 'dips'. But that's just me.
|
|
Murf
climber
|
|
Largo,
The piccy of DE is from a boulder fall deep in the Wonderland. The way I heard it was a chance misstep leading to a 20' onto his head. It is the inspiration for the aptly named route The Melon Cracker on "The Cranium".
Hearing about it, I think we're still lucky to have him around.
-Murf
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2007 - 08:56pm PT
|
look what our little climb last weekend started!
Knew it would be epic when we couldn't find the trail.
|
|
Jim Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
|
|
"... but credit went to them anyway and that's fine by me"
Actually, Wolfe refused to acknowledge your first ascent credit in his guide books. "stichter Quits" didn't show up until the purple guide by.... Oh my god!!! This is a friggin' conspiracy!
|
|
hashbro
Trad climber
Not in Southern California
|
|
Craig, I told you many times that "you found the route and hauled me out there"; we both placed at least a few bolts on the route, and I don't remember who else was with us. The years of repeated drugs, alcohol and sex have faded my once-clear memory. I either don't remember, or don't care.
As we have discussed, the details of who did what are far less important than the fact that we were all out there exploring. I know damn well that this whole controversy, this whole thread for that matter, are about our re-living those amazing moments, out there on the sharp end, high above the yuccas, the boulder piles, and our very mortality!
|
|
Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
|
|
Just a couple of additional thoughts. Ho and hum...
Curt
|
|
philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
|
|
Pithy, witty and eloquent response Curt.
|
|
Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
|
|
Well seriously--Figures is a great route, but it is really amazing to see that all these years later people are arguing about having the route stolen from them or not getting credit for the FA, etc. The history of any route is what it is--not what appears in print in one guidebook or another.
Curt
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 2, 2007 - 11:52am PT
|
Was all this history written down somewhere before? It's new to me.
|
|
msiddens
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
|
|
Awesome picts....making my palms sweat just looking. I've gotta go do that thing and put it to rest once and for all.
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
|
|
Are there any injustices we are missing? You sheepbuggerers crack me up.
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
|
|
Werd....
Plus I have always heard the Boxer did the Fry Problem (on the Fry Boulder no less!) first and gets no play on that send.
I guess you win some (Fry Problem) and lose some, (Monkey on my Back) oh well. Probably all evens out in the end.
|
|
looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
|
|
This thread is too good to let it die (and apparently the "controversy"). So this will either be the apology Craig seeks or more fuel on the fire...(and entertainent to all the lurkers [eg:AJB]).
Obviously Craig and I disagree about (1) whether we had independently seen the route or not, and (2) whether I was a johnny come lately (arriving apparently now "a month" after CF, DE and SL had started the climb). Such is memory and I can only be truthful to my own.
What I do not think we disagree about is that on the "second day" I lead up and eventually placed the double bolt belay and we bailed for the day, vowing to return together to finish it. And it is not subject to debate that on the subsequent "third day" DE and I returned without Craig and finished the climb.
I am very sorry that we did not wait for you Craig.
Craig was an inspired, talented and motivated Josh climber. It was a pleasure to have called him a friend and to have shared time at the crags. I choose to remember and leave it at that.
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
|
|
"The Boxer"! hahaha
I talked with Karl a couple days ago. Nice guy. It cracks me up that he was the rope gun then...
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!