Wall of Early Morning Light

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Melissa

Big Wall climber

oakland, ca

Sep 10, 2004 - 02:29pm PT

"Hope that somebody with time, money and skills gets inspired for adventure and public service and fixes up the route so we go reap the benefits someday."

You live in the Valley, climb nearly full time, and use it to derrive much of your income...I bet the ASCA would provide the hardware if you would be willing to donate your time and skill...

Regarding the Trip...

Look at who did that work

http://www.safeclimbing.org/areas/california/yosemitebigwalls.htm

And then look at who did the replacements on most of the rest of the walls.

Does this person talk about trying to make things better or do they do something about it? In the process they'll make a few mistakes, but I think it's better to risk making mistakes by trying to do something positive than it is to just talk forever about how things 'ought to be'.

Lambone

Ice climber

Ashland, Or

Sep 10, 2004 - 02:33pm PT

"In the process they'll make a few mistakes"

hahaha...yeah whatever...::rolleyes::

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Sep 10, 2004 - 03:20pm PT

There is some truth in what you say Mellisa but there's just one thing.

When it comes to bolting, I'm like a neutral country. I don't chop, I don't drill. I'm not saying that's right or best, that's just what feels right for just me.

And with that, I don't really have the experience to do the job right even if I wanted to.

I might change my stripes someday, and I'll eat my words then, bur for now I'm going to remain lazy and imperfect.

burp

Karl

Melissa

Big Wall climber

oakland, ca

Sep 10, 2004 - 03:34pm PT

"When it comes to bolting, I'm like a neutral country."

I guess I said what I did b/c I often see you advocating for the retrobolting of some routes, the creation of other well bolted routes, thanking others for their replacement work, and in this case advocating for the replacement of dammaged hardware. Your stance doesn't seem neutral to me...more like you just prefer that someone else add the botls that you desire.

I have no doubt that with a minimum of instruction someone with your climbing experience would be a big asset to the ASCA if you chose to help with rebolting and route repair.

Lambone

Ice climber

Ashland, Or

Sep 10, 2004 - 03:58pm PT

dude shut up...

who are you to tell karl what he should do or think. If he doesn't feel like bolting anything...but supports somebody who might....what's wrong with that?

you need to get off your high horse and stop insinuating that people suck.

and if you thing the Rebolting job on T-Trip has just a "few mistakes" then you need to get your head out of your ass...

ok, sorry back to the discussion.

Melissa

Big Wall climber

oakland, ca

Sep 10, 2004 - 04:07pm PT

"and if you thing the Rebolting job on T-Trip has just a "few mistakes" then you need to get your head out of your ass... "

And my point was who the hell are you to insinuate that Erik sucks...or for that matter that my boyfriend does.

Or perhaps you were taking issue with their what they did on the Trip and not them? Just as I am taking issue with what Karl advocates but will not do himself.

Karl is my friend. I do not think he sucks at all. I hope that he knows that I find him very not-sucky. I disagree with him sometimes, even though he's got 25 years of experience on me and I am just supposed to kiss the ground when he walks by. If he want to unbefriend me because of it, that's up to him.

Matt

climber

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2004 - 06:06pm PT

such a touchy subject to some people...

melisa-
i see a big difference between "advocating" (or expressing an opinion) and actually taking a concrete action, and i see karl's self expressed neutrality as just that. an opinion can be reconsidered, can be debated, can cange over time, but an opinion does not change the rock itself.

kinda funny, the whole issue of yosemite bolting, but it's only those who are either the most passionate, or those who are the most "bold" (select your own alternative description) who actually get involved in the nitty-gritty, and they in turn are regulated by whom?

by those who are either the most passionate, or those who are the most "bold".

and then there are the rest of us, who just want to go climbing, and we only hope that nobody sticks it to us too badly...

Lambone

Ice climber

Ashland, Or

Sep 10, 2004 - 06:59pm PT

Mellisa,

My intent wasn't to slam your bioyfriend...sorry you took it personaly. It wasn't even to slam the bolts currently on the Tangerine Trip. Thay would be hypocritical as I happily clipped them last year. No it was more the method used t get them there that bothers me...of whichj i didn't find out about until after the fact.

But whatever...I guess you could put me on karls team of opinionated yet neutraly inactive drillers.

Lambone

Ice climber

Ashland, Or

Sep 10, 2004 - 07:11pm PT

what happened to the damn edit button?

Matt

climber

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2004 - 07:22pm PT

i got an edit button, that feature must be only for the local CA 'matt's...

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Sep 10, 2004 - 11:22pm PT

I like Melissa and don't have a problem having friends I don't agree with. I don't expect to be above question in any case. That doesn't mean she's right!

And in regards to the issue of bolting, I don't pretend to be perfect or admirable. I never felt right drilling bolts but I never felt bad clipping them.

That's the way it is. I try to make some kind of contribution to the community of climbers but it's not with a drill. I do have a lazy streak, maybe that has something to do with it as well, but the few times I've started to hammer in a bolt hole, it just feels funny to me.

Maybe it's the same sort of hypocrisy of those who don't mind eating meat but wouldn't raise an animal and later slaughter it for dinner.

I used to like nailing. At least I felt I was fairly good at it. But now I'm willing to stick my neck out to avoid hammering pins and heads into the stone as well. Just my preference, although I advocate for as clean a climbing as possible. For me, there is a difference between useful bolted belays and elegant but safe new routes, and willful damage to the stone and hammering cracks from knifeblades into boxy scars. One facilitates our sustainable use, and the other ruins the future. My opinions are just my perspective and I respect the perspective of others as well. In this world, we are all going to enjoy and suffer the fruits of other's ideas as time marches on.

Climbing is just getting started as a sport. The rock has already sustained quite a bit of damage in the short time that we have been playing on it. Let's be as smart with the stone and with each other as our tiny human brains allow.

Peace

karl

Diesel_Smoke

Big Wall climber

Sep 10, 2004 - 11:44pm PT

--""and if you thing the Rebolting job on T-Trip has just a "few mistakes" then you need to get your head out of your ass... "

And my point was who the hell are you to insinuate that Erik sucks...or for that matter that my boyfriend does."--

He doesn't? Maybe that is why you come off as bitchy and castrating sometimes...

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Sep 11, 2004 - 01:20am PT

This thread is already long and bleak. If anybody wants to flame anybody, lets start in on another thread so Jim can stay the main loser of this thread.

Or we can just call it a day.

Peace

karl

Diesel_Smoke

Big Wall climber

Sep 11, 2004 - 03:30am PT

"This thread is already long and bleak. If anybody wants to flame anybody, lets start in on another thread so Jim can stay the main loser of this thread."

Indeed it is, Karl. But speaking of flaming - discussing Jim's actions are one thing. Flaming someone who isn't even involved in the dialog should be considered quite cowardly.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?

Sep 11, 2004 - 11:40am PT

Concur emphatically on the above.

Ammon

Big Wall climber

The Ditch

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2004 - 03:06pm PT

Whhhoaa!!! Sorry, I brought up a sore subject.

So, Brian and I went back up there a few days back. We tried to replace the bent hangers but didn't have the right tools for how damaged they were (we would've had to bring a BL setup).

After doing the route I can see Jake's point in wishing those features could have been saved for a later time. But, it is a classic line. The route climbs some really cool parts of the wall.

It would be tragic to see this route turn into a botch job. I say, LET THE RIVETS STAY. Some of those belays could get beefed up, though.

So I guess the most important beta for the route now, is the pendi into Mescalito (7th pitch) and the free climb to the Reticent anchors (12th pitch), for another pendi. It takes a little longer, but seems like a reasonable way to do it.

Yep, I've met and hung out with Beyer, too. Fun guy, lots of great tales. He got me psyched to get on some harder ground. I hope he doesn't take offence in disagreeing with him, on the way he left those hangers.

That's all.

Cheers!!

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?

Dec 22, 2007 - 04:24pm PT

Just a bump, and to inquire if anyone knows the status of the route now? I am looking for a moderate route on El Cap to climb next spring [one I haven't done since I don't repeat routes] and WOEML is an obvious candidate.

I am not averse to replacing rivets and bolts if need be - I would just like to know what and where and how many.

Cheers,
Pete