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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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LittleCotton-er,
Thanks for the clarifications on the facts and for stating your sources. It was initially confusing, and this list makes more sense.
I don't feel they were lying when they used bolt belays on the ascent. Their intent was not to use the *bolt ladders*.
Also, they never claimed that they descended the route without using bolt anchors (or maybe even some of the bolt ladders).
Your point about not summitting the ice mushroom does imply they lied about summitting - they clearly claim to have summitted.
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eddie franks
climber
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Let me mention a few things and then relate a story that happened to my friend…
(1) I’ve climbed for over 20 years and climb at a reasonable level (nothing to write to the rags about).
(2) I’ve climbed on 4 continents, including first ascents.
(3) I’ve never placed, or pulled, a bolt.
(4) I’ve met Micah and Josh briefly. Both seemed nice enough and pretty straight shooters.
Knowing nothing for certain other than the info from this thread and Alpinist, I wanted to mention 3 things and really point out a 4th.
(1) People should always stand up to be counted when it comes to sticking up for what one believes in—good on Micah for sticking up for friends.
(2) Josh is a rad climber and I respect his efforts in Patagonia and elsewhere.
(3) IF it is true that the party intended to chop bolts, that is pretty weak, especially if this was “hidden” from others. At least be man enough to take responsibility for what you intend to do (whether or not you actually succeed in doing it and, again, IF that is true).
(4) IF it is true that Bean assaulted Steve (who is a cool guy), someone should put his ass in the hospital. This gets me to my final point. I have a friend who is a mediocre surfer. He is, however, decent at some other things. One morning a few years back he was surfing a spot and began to get some of that “locals only, go home” sort of sh#t. He took it for awhile, trying to ignore it. A couple of set later, a guy drops in on him and purposely knocks him from his board. Shouting ensues. Mr. Surfer tells my friend to paddle in. At this point, my friend just wanted out, but as he paddles in the other guy follows him. On the beach, Mr. Surfer feels confident because he is bigger and younger than my friend. To make a long story short, after my buddy smacked Mr. Surfer around for a bit he paused, told him, “this is for being such an ass”… then separated his shoulder. Crack. No more surfing for that season.
Climbing ethics and style are important. But IF (if, if, if) Bean did assault Steve, I hope someday he too picks on the wrong guy someday.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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hey man,
good post.
right arm!
i agree with ya.
i once got sucker punched when 19. f*#kers broke my jaw. since hen that aint never happened. never.
fighting is to win, but fighting should only be done as a last resort to protect your personal safety. and if some as#@&%e starts it, then they get what they deserve.
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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The bolts will eventually rust away and fall out anyway.
Though when I climbed the Maestri/Bridwell route (SE ridge, whatever you want to call it) in 1993, the Cassin bolts (the type that look like a tiny piton--a wedge about 1 1/2" long with a Lost Arrow-type forged eye) were looking pretty solid after 22 years.
Still, it seems like it would take longer to remove the bolts than to climb the thing, and when the heck does the weather even cooperate for speedy ascent of the tower? It seems like the attempt to "clean" the route, which is quite a statement, would end in a half-finished job, making the route lost in limbo.
Moreover it seems to me that the only people qualified to chop even a single bolt on the route, should be able to climb the entire route without any fixed anchors at all.
Interesting concept though. It seems similar in concept to chopping the Nose since it has been proven to be climbable without any fixed anchors at all.
Edit: meant to say, "proven to be POTENTIALLY climbable without any fixed anchors at all".
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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deuce,
so the nose has been climbed without any fixed anchors at all?
really.
well, lynn didnt do it. she clipped those boltson the headwall.
i aint against getting rid of useless stuff but the roginal line of the nose probably has not been climbed sans bolts. we should keep our stories strait
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Ron,
I'm not advocating chopping those bolts. I'm just trying to satrt an argument. I mean, so what if there's a stupid, artificial, insensitive trade route on the most beautiful alpine spire in the world? Who cares if 5.4 climbers can wank their way to the top of a 5.12 spire?
Mal--I hate slippery slopes--Daly
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jackass
climber
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I am with you Radical... lets go climb that thing then!
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Why do you guys always have to dis us 5.4 climbers? I'm just out having fun on the rock. Excuuuuuuse meeeee!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Rhodo Router, Little Cotton-er: Thanks for the link and information. Helping shed some light on all the heat and smoke.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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How long til Josh and Zack can get to a computer and reply themselves? Looking forward to hearing their point of view.
I wonder if they're happy with what they did, or tried to do? Now that they have had time to think about it, is there anything they regret? Might they apologize? Or will they stand firm and defiant?
Waiting to hear.....
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BrentA
Gym climber
Roca Rojo
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I may not rip anymore, or maybe even never did, BUT...
I like to think that I still have the alpine in me. When confronted with a choice (which I still have a shot at making reality) of climbing Cerro Torre via a liar's bolt ladder and summitting, or standing at the bottom and waiting until I can climb it in real style...
I say let it become a museum and playground for those that are upto the task.
As far as boys fighting, well when real passion flares I don't see anything wrong with two men in a clean fight sorting out some business.
Personally I'm aiming for the West Ridge, another friend climbed it this season and the pics inspire my inner alpinist. not the one that currently resides on the outside.
Josh, Zack and a host of other talented alpinists function in an orbit far beyond any of ours...make the mountain pretty I say. Alpinsim and climbing arent' for everyone. If your not upto the job, stand down or cowboy up!
As far as what is reported, I'm down with Josh (remember he was with Bean and Jonny when Bean sailed off the snocone summit). If he says he summitted he did....end of story. Let him get home and sort it out in person.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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BrentA,
while it is hard to dispute the beauty and the affront some climbers may feel for maestri's style, it is only through the modern advances that climbers of today can do what they do. To stretch your logic we may as well start choppin bolts all over the place. I dont really care, but the logic of ethics and how it is applied in his sport is so f*#ked up it is beyond ridiculous.
That may not be so bad. But when others decide to erase things for others, it gets ugly.
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jstan
climber
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I remember there was some fuss when Maestri did whatever it was he did. I don't know about alpine climbing but my observation generally is individuals do what they do because of things going on inside their head. Is there any significance even a millimeter outside of their head? I would tend to doubt it. If we destroy the real world it is only us who will be hurt. Surely humans will have died out long before the world has been able to restore itself naturally. So we can take heart. In our thoughtless rage we hurt only ourselves. In the end, justice will be done.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oh.
Here's an idea Malcolm; remove the bolts and leave the holes specially shaped to accept only the NEW! (patented) Trango Torre TricKey.
A rack of 3Ts is all you need to wank your way up the Torre. Then you can go back to the flatlands and tell everyone you've climbed the world's hardest spire.
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WBraun
climber
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Interesting
Just what are we looking for at the top of these summits?
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Darnell
Big Wall climber
Chicago
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A secret door with a portal to another dimension
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Mimi
climber
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The best way to get down?
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WBraun
climber
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Hahahaha LOL
Common, someone must know.
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Darnell
Big Wall climber
Chicago
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There is a secret portal on the Texas flake, right above the euro bolt that was ADDED!
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!