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spectreman
Trad climber
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Dec 13, 2018 - 05:44pm PT
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Erin is passionate, intelligent and consistent.
I wholeheartedly disagree. Her writing is disgusting.
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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Dec 13, 2018 - 06:05pm PT
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Erin is passionate, intelligent and consistent. I disagree with almost everything she writes but I admire her commitment and her zeal. Right: passionate, intelligent, consistent, committed, zealous.
If she can somehow add honest, just, and tolerant she'll then have some attributes that distinguish her from Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot and their ilk.
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Rolfr
Sport climber
La Quinta and Penticton BC
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Dec 13, 2018 - 06:31pm PT
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I actually read the whole piece, as opposed to those who criticized it without making the effort to read it in its entirety, rather than dismissing the whole piece she has some valid criticisms.
Alex's attitudes to women is shame full and diminishes his accomplishments in my eyes, I hope his sponsors consider how many female athletes and climbers he has alienated.
Her comments on white male entitlement should at the very least make us, the climbing community reflect on how privileged and entitled we are to be able to obsess on such an insignificant pursuit
Unfortunetly of the 100+ responses on this post , only 1 or 2 women responded , that speaks volumes men.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 13, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
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That means the chance a man is killed by an IP is pretty close to (one might even say: "roughly the same as") the chance a woman is killed by an IP.
this may be a false equivalence, which is based on the assumption that the statistics are complete and that the motives for the murders are the same.
As far as motives, it could be that women who kill an IP do so in self defense, while men do so as an act of aggression.
How we look at this set of incomplete statistics, and what conclusions we draw from the analysis based on those assumptions, leads to very different views on the proposed equivalence.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Dec 14, 2018 - 12:54am PT
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the Currie sisters had it figured out in 1980, but Cherie sounded a lot better with the Runaways The ladies spewed more masculinity than good old Merv. Cherie is a bid of a bad azz, she went on to become an accomplished chain saw sculptor, might have to get her chromosomes checked out.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Dec 14, 2018 - 03:25am PT
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this may be a false equivalence, which is based on the assumption that the statistics are complete and that the motives for the murders are the same.
Good point
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Dec 14, 2018 - 08:10am PT
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Erin is passionate, intelligent and consistent.
I wholeheartedly disagree. Her writing is disgusting.
you may disagree with her writing, but why attack her passion, and intelligence?
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Dec 14, 2018 - 01:12pm PT
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When you see a welder firing up their rig they always have to tweak the knob before the flame gets sufficiently concentrated to do meaningful work. Otherwise, they can't lay down a clean "bead," and just end up burning everything to sh#t - which might be her point after all.
That much said, I'd like to meet Erin and see what lies behind the guff and white noise.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Dec 14, 2018 - 03:45pm PT
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Mercy. Now being white is a pathological "condition" requiring "healing and liberation," especially crucial for those unaware of how sick they actually are. And the instructor is "woke" and you pay her cash money for the "training."
I believe this is called "diversity awareness," which is an essential study for any and everyone in today's world. But marketing whiteness as a pathology requiring a cure is so much marketing bosh - of that we may be sure.
The ways which people excavate a cash stream these days is remarkably creative. We have to give them that.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 14, 2018 - 04:01pm PT
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Sadly, I don't have the photoshop skills to produce an ad for "Healing from Internalized Maleness" featuring some of ST's most toxic denizens...
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capseeboy
Social climber
portland, oregon
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Dec 14, 2018 - 05:25pm PT
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But what would it look like? To be evolutionary it would seem to need be unpredictable . . . something really new than simply “being nice and respectful to others.”
Richard Feynman - The World from another point of view
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Trump
climber
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Dec 14, 2018 - 05:38pm PT
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The idea that we’re going to honestly and objectively consider how a perspective that’s different than our own might honestly be right, and how we might honestly be wrong, is so laughable, that it’s hard to understand why she, or we, bother to try at all, if that’s what we and she are honestly trying to do.
Me? I’m so sure that being white, or being male, or being human, or being me, have no effect on what I believe. I’m just a logically rational omniscient computing machine! churning out true beliefs, each one as true as the one before.
For all the people out there who are right - yea, you’re right, you’re so right.
For the rest of us, post away!
Or write an article. Best wishes!
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Dec 14, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
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I read the article in the OP. A very interesting perspective, much of which I appreciate or agree with outright.
But the whole Native American superiority complex of the author was bullsh#t. They're not any better or any more enlightened that us ignorant white folks.
Once I was given permission by a tribe to climb a sacred peak on a reservation in the southwest. I didn't ask, they surprised me with the offer.
I never climbed the peak. That's because we spent the day hauling out 45 trash bags of empty beer cans that we found on the slopes of their "sacred" peak.
Ain't no white folk been up on that peak, the natives were using their sacred peak as a trash dump. Sacred my ass. We're all just a bunch of ignorant hypocrites going for a ride on this spinning ball we call earth.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 14, 2018 - 11:03pm PT
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So I've read the 6,347 word piece: Ambient Dominion: How 'Free Solo' Points to An Epidemic of Toxic Masculinity, by Erin Monahan.
What I get is that in the movie about Alex and his solo of El Capitan, (which I haven't seen), Erin and other women, perhaps many women, and probably some guys as well, heck: could even be a great deal of those who saw the film, were confronted with the specter of Alex Honnold being a dick to his girlfriend. So Erin Monahan wants to sort that out.
She casts a very broad net to make sense of Alex. Erin starts with this, an observation which, for me, carries some insight:
“One of our people in the Native community said the difference between white people and Indians is that Indian people know they are oppressed but don’t feel powerless. White people don’t feel oppressed, but feel powerless. Deconstruct that disempowerment. Part of the mythology that they’ve been teaching you is that you have no power. Power is not brute force and money; power is in your spirit. Power is in your soul. It is what your ancestors, your old people gave you. Power is in the earth; it is in your relationship to the earth.”  Winona LaDuke
And near the bottom, in the first of the last four paragraphs, we get this from Erin:
The “warrior” path that Alex speaks of is for white men who think they are trying to escape unbearably happy and cozy lives. But what climbers are really trying to escape are the oppressive norms of supremacy and patriarchy that harm them as well. Without inner reflection, self-awareness, and internalized healing, men like Alex Honnold are doomed to inflict the pain they are experiencing onto those around them.
So Erin Monahan and other people were appalled at how Alex treats his girlfriend. He's also very single-minded about what he does, to the exclusion of other pursuits. He doesn't relate his exploits to the fact that we settlers took this land from indigenous people. And then she goes off on her own expeditionary inquiry to try to understand it. Nothing wrong with trying to understand the world around us, and the wrongs that have been done to self and to others. I give her credit for this.
As to whether she does justice to the task, it's hard for me to come out with a pat analysis of that. I definitely give her credit for trying, whatever the fluency and veracity of the effort. There's too much in there for me to deconstruct in a Supertopo post.
I take this kind of thing as food for thought. I see no reason to outright castigate the effort. Do I agree or disagree? It's not that simple. If I were asked to fill out a survey and those were my choices, I would simply decline.
–Roy
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Dec 15, 2018 - 03:24am PT
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Thanks, Tarbuster. My old friend and philosophy teacher used to do that for me sometimes, when I got too frustrated to wade through heavy-handed philosophy texts and see where people were coming from
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