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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Feb 25, 2018 - 12:43pm PT
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Misanthrope is a great description.
No need for civility when one can remain adolescent.
It is about the gun,the amount of rounds, the availability ,the background checks and age requirements. Nothing more.
What is the next soft target?
Hospitals,Nursing homes ,on and on and on.
Let’s compare whatever they will be to football games and airports.
The NRA and it’s gun hugging tribe only number to ,say,30 million people.
A clear minority to how many against them.
They should have their way ,gutless pussies.
Edit:Spend some time as an EMT,see what a bullet wound looks like. You may have a different perspective.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Feb 25, 2018 - 12:57pm PT
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He is also being derogatory and superior
Yup.. quite unpleasant.
Makes you wonder how people can be so angry all the time.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Feb 25, 2018 - 01:07pm PT
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Sorry to the rest of you for my rant. I swore I would not comment on such things ,but , that kind of thought pisses me right off.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Feb 25, 2018 - 01:48pm PT
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I was a member of the NRA when I was a teenager in the early 1950s. I recall the organization being very much hunting and target-shooting oriented. I owned a couple of .22 rifles (bolt action) and a single barrel sweet sixteen shotgun and hunted small game once a month or so. My high school had a (.22) rifle team, and I remember my next door neighbor - a year my senior - taking his cased rifle to school and occasionally having it in a classroom.
As the Vietnam conflict heated up in the early 1960s there developed a desire for a more military-like firearm among some gun enthusiasts and Colt was happy to oblige with a civilian version of the M16 in 1964. Through the mid 1970s the NRA - founded in 1871 - remained primarily a hunting/marksmanship group, but the passage of the GCA in 1968, which imposed considerable restrictions on firearm sales, put pressure on the organization to provide a political force.
From that point on hunting an fishing magazines moved toward military weapons for civilians, with cover photos of men in camouflage bearing AR-15s going after deadly predators like deer and elk. Also, the military paradigm began to appear in law enforcement. Bill Clinton's distribution of military hardware to police was a large step in that direction.
I despise the AR-15 and similar weapons for a variety of reasons, including the decline in beautiful engraved and artistically designed traditional bolt action hunting rifles. A trite reason for sure.
By and large, remarks on this thread are little more than rants, preaching to the choir, and suggestions for gun confiscations seem other-worldly. The USA is not Norway, and I've spent time in both countries. Sadly, what has worked in other countries will not work here. To think so is very naive in my opinion. But bash away if it makes you feel good.
Israel has a system in place for protecting schools that involves at least one trained and armed security person at each location. It may be, however, that arming teachers is discouraged. But, since all citizens must train with the IDF, there are armed soldiers interspersed with the population in public areas, and these people might be available quickly in an emergency. But I know little about this, and anyone here with deeper knowledge should speak out.
Here in Pueblo West the schools have recently been reformatted with strong security entrances, and sherrif's deputies patrol school areas during the day, so they are close by.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Feb 25, 2018 - 02:04pm PT
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If we stopped selling that gun and other large mag guns right now ,with restrictions on amounts of ammo and age and background requirements,we would reduce the problem .
Everyone that owns them right now could be buried with them.
I don’t believe confiscation is realistic.
The fix is here ,forward.
Who sounds naive?
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Feb 25, 2018 - 02:35pm PT
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Terence, I have respect for contributors to ST who do not hide behind avatars. Wish there were more like you.
Naive? Perhaps overcoming a surge of gun rights advocates in mid-America. But maybe not. Perhaps effective legislation might become possible in the future.
. . ..buried with their guns
What is the life-span of a modern weapon compared with that of a person?
But a novel idea, I admit.
;>)
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Feb 25, 2018 - 02:43pm PT
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I am a gun owner myself and I grew up hunting. That has nothing to do with this.
What I proposed is not my idea.
It is the thinking of a clear majority that wants at least that much done.
Hardly an attack of ones 2nd amendment rights,more a protection of all others rights to safety.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 25, 2018 - 02:48pm PT
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good or bad, get lost in his tone
Thin skin, anybody?
You seem to have no problem with the "tone" of the more insulting libtards around here. I haven't seen you call one of them out about tone once. Not once.
And there IS moaning and sniveling about "Oh, the guns... the bad, bad guns! Make them all go away, so that we can all be all safe and cozy in our little utopia that we've had to go all totalitarian to achieve."
Not everybody moans and snivels, of course. But there's a lot of it on these threads. It solves nothing, nor does projection about "tone."
Pftttt.
When you want to get serious about a solution that WILL work, we'll have something to genuinely talk about. Until then, gun-control advocates here can just keep blaming the NRA, the Rebumblecons, the President, and all those bad, bad guns. Good luck with that.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 25, 2018 - 02:49pm PT
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willbeer, whaddya gonna do in the meantime to protect school children?
Here’s my idea - shut down NASA. That’ll save how many billions? Put those geniuses to
work on bettering life ON earh. How long would it take ‘em to make really good metal
detectors that would automatically lock the perp in?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 25, 2018 - 02:51pm PT
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more a protection of all others rights to safety
What is THIS right?
Is this just the right to life that you're talking about?
If so, it's a negative right, not a positive one.
And that right implies the right to self-defense and the means thereof.
Again, in general we are safest when we are our own first-responders. In general, the cops clean up messes afterwards.
Until we get proactive and serious about school security, random nut-jobs will continue to find them soft-targets.
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John M
climber
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Feb 25, 2018 - 03:02pm PT
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You seem to have no problem with the "tone" of the more insulting libtards around here. I haven't seen you call one of them out about tone once. Not once.
I have called out many. Plus, I didn't call you out, I simply pointed out that what Reilly said was not true. I rarely if ever call anyone out anymore because I found that it rarely does any good. Case in point is you.
In the past I tried to change many people. One example is Norton. I bugged him so often that he eventually got pissed at me. Locker will likely also remember me getting on his case during one period. And Philo is another good example. And I could list many more. But it did little to no good. A few people have changed, but that is a tiny minority.
At the same time I also worked on myself because I try not to be a hypocrite. I fail sometimes, and I have apologized for those times.
Most people I find don't want to change. So I don't bother anymore. But I will at times point out things that aren't true. Which is what I did with Reilly's post. He tried to paint your post in a light which wasn't true.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Feb 25, 2018 - 03:08pm PT
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So,you have read the Constitution of the United States.
Do you want me to point it out?
So , you are against the solutions that a Clear majority will back.
Sensible to any but you Effen gun nuts.
See ya ,fruitcakes.
You do not deserve civil discourse ,really.
Reilly,in the meantime, I am going to be at the next nearest incident,inacting triage.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 25, 2018 - 03:29pm PT
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He tried to paint your post in a light which wasn't true.
No, actually Reilly gets me better than most of you.
Of course, he's not defensive about a position that's indefensible. Such a perspective clears your ears and helps you to detect "tone" better.
You know, we could all try to get beyond personal attacks and "tone" interpretations and other such subjective BS and talk about actual principles and facts and even possible solutions that apply to the real world.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 25, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
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Sensible to any but you Effen gun nuts.
See ya ,fruitcakes.
You do not deserve civil discourse ,really.
See ya!
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Feb 25, 2018 - 03:35pm PT
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It is all about you
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 25, 2018 - 04:00pm PT
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It's all about the kids. Right?
Ready to get serious about that?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 25, 2018 - 04:16pm PT
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But I will at times point out things that aren't true. Which is what I did with Reilly's post.
Uh, yer ‘rebuttal’ wouldn’t hold up either in a high school debate or anything more rigorous.
You only interjected yer emotional take on a statement. That’s hardly a ‘proof’. I have put
forward some straight forward ideas but all most of you guys do is get personal.
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John M
climber
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Feb 25, 2018 - 04:25pm PT
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so MB's post wan't insulting. He was merely offering an idea.
Okay.. well. good luck with that.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 25, 2018 - 04:29pm PT
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How should what is clearly at most a limited constitutional right to bear arms be balanced against other rights? MB1?
The right to life is a negative right, hence inalienable and unlimited.
That right implies the right of self-defense, which is also inalienable and unlimited.
That right implies the possession and, if necessary, the right to use the means of self-defense, which is also inalienable and unlimited.
That third right, which just is the right to bear arms, is not "limited" in the sense I believe you mean it. It is "limited" only insofar as self-defense itself implies (both morally and legally) a "commensurate response" to an actual and immediate threat (a threat to the right to life).
Thus, there is no "slippery slope to nukes," as some suggest. But it does imply that people have the unlimited right to bear the very arms they can reasonably expect to need to commensurately respond to the sorts of threats they can reasonably expect to their individual persons. Nukes, for example, are not a response to individual threats. They are a response to national threats.
As negative rights, these rights by definition do not infringe on the rights of others. For example, my mere possession of a gun in your presence in NO way infringes upon any of your negative rights! You might not like it, but the constitution does not protect us from not liking aspects of each other's preferences.
However, if I misuse my gun to actually violate one of your negative rights, then I have thereby gone far beyond the mere possession of that gun! But the mere possession of that gun does not violate any of the rights of others.
Negative rights cannot conflict, and the rights mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and in the vast majority of the founders' surrounding documents and papers refer to negative rights.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 25, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
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so MB's post wan't insulting.
True.
Yer sense of proportion is off.
Upthread, we had a couple of long-time, very liberal posters advocating the slaughter of Republican Congressmen and the idea of throwing a party "when it happens."
You had nothing to say about that. I was the only one here who said it was outrageous and beyond inappropriate (and even likely illegal).
You had nothing to say about it.
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