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zBrown
Ice climber
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Dec 12, 2017 - 07:26am PT
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Well, vid_wise
We now know that not only can white folks not jump, they can't dance either. Some are adept child molesters.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Equal time (semi, that is - no complainers thirteen years old)
NFL Network suspends Marshall Faulk, other ex-players over sexual misconduct allegations
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Dec 12, 2017 - 07:36am PT
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You can attack me all you want
I am not attacking you Susan, where did it appear I was? I was questioning your authenticity, that is all. I see that not as an attack, but a question. Have you answered it appropriately?
And if what you write is true, a miscarriage of justice in the least.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Dec 12, 2017 - 07:42am PT
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MikeL - Don't be sorry for me. I came through my earlier experience in one piece. While true that there have been some after-effects, I have a pretty fine life.
As for anger - I don't have anger over what has happened to me. I have anger when I witness people displaying behaviors that I see as abusive, or speaking in ways that seem to me they see women as inanimate objects and/or lesser than men.
When I speak or write about what has happened to me, I do so in part to be a voice for those who are unable to speak or write about what happened to them. There are many in that population. There are many who have blocked out their entire childhood, because they could not survive intact if they remembered what happened to them. I know this, because I have met women who actually say they cannot recall ANY THING about their life up to a certain point(and that point was well beyond the age where one ought to have some recollections).
I'm sorry that you see some of my actions as being destructive. While I understand that my heading cross-country in a van without even enough money for gas for the trip would not be someone else's cup of tea, it worked out fine for me. Other than that - there are more than many people who tell me they are jealous of the life I have. Go figure.
So....JoGill. Thank you for your example, although I was expecting people might share ones which they had a closer perspective on. Would you say that the "damages" that guy suffered are as bad as those of a woman who was raped(for that was Warbler's claim)?
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Dec 12, 2017 - 07:53am PT
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Patrick: . . . if any neanderthals think that woman have had the upper hand in patriarchal societies, think again.
We like TCM on cable, so we watch a lot of old movies, the wife and I. We’ve been talking about the subject of this thread, and we listed off a set of old movies with Barbara Stanwyck, Bette Davis, etc. of women who were presented as predators. We thought that their portrayals seemed more evil than those of male bad guys—but different. Stanwyck is perhaps my favorite female actress. It’s interesting that she was not a part of the studio system in those days. She appeared to be fiercely independent. And Davis, . . . whew, a great actress who showed us the depths of planning and scheming.
Second, my wife had a few things to say about being raped from personal experience. She was damaged, but also by many other experiences in life, not simply the rapes. She’s an optimistic person since I’ve met her. I was most drawn to her, I think, because she is one of those people who fell flat on her face and picked themselves up and went on. I love those people.
We also took the ugly monster out of the closet and talked about it: the wild diversity of sexual preferences. There are ALL kinds, and of course, there is nothing particularly wrong with any of them. I’ve been on the wrong side of the tracks at a time of my life and hung around and worked with people who were “in the life.” Prostitutes of both sexes will tell you stories that could make your stomach sick, but none of it appears to be truly sick. It’s just people’s preferences and truly a confidence game in the old sense of the word. Without fantasy, there isn’t much at all to sex. One more thing: one mate can tell another mate what his or her preferences are in a neutral setting, but when it comes time for a performance, everything is supposed to be spontaneous, otherwise it’s not much fun—fantasies lose their magic. This all implies that *it is possible* that someone he or she cares about actually likes the rape fantasy. Intimate social relations can be very confusing, especially when one has had a few of them..
I’ve been married three times. One thing I’ve learned for me is how difficult it is for me to communicate to a person of the opposite sex. For many reasons, I don’t have nearly the same problem with people of my gender and persuasion. Believe me, I’ve worked at it (in the classroom and personally).
Freud said that “biology is destiny,” and Gloria Steinham later agreed. Those declarations are checkmarks for biological evolutionary determinism. Today genes, brain chemistry, and social histories are explaining just about everything human—we’re told. But which is it? Do we really have choices that we (as individuals) can make? Are the sexes different, and if so, can they be made equal even though different? Is Pinker right that we are a war-like species—naturally, evolutionarily? Have certain behavioral traits been selected in men, in women, in the human species that have favored its reproduction over other species? Are men, women, the species destined / determined to be what they are or have been, with only glacial incremental change possible . . . socially, genetically, environmentally? Has human psychology been relatively rigid and unchanging historically, and if so, should we assume it will in all likelihood continue that way? Must I be what I see myself to be physically and socially, or can I really be different if I want to be?
It’s an interesting conversation on every level. It’s also a dangerous one.
Happygrrrl!
Best to you.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Dec 12, 2017 - 07:57am PT
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I didn't realize Callie was a poster here"...
How long have you been here, and do you even climb, brah???...
Locker, that's a rhetorical question, isn't it?
Wilmot, "Callie" doesn't doesn't post much anymore, but her avatar on here is "Crimpergirl".
Btw, she is a famous climber, and birdwatcher.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Dec 12, 2017 - 08:19am PT
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I won't miss her,
she instigated nuthin but hate and negativity here.
Good riddance!
Her? I didn't know that.
I agree with your sentiment, Tad.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Dec 12, 2017 - 08:20am PT
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Other than that - there are more than many people who tell me they are jealous of the life I have. Go figure.
I love what you do Hap. I wish I had half the balls you do. It’s the stuff wonderful stories are written about. I think of Cheryl Strayed novels. I love the off shore sailing for weeks at a time but it’s always with redundant systems and at least one other person .... you take off with Lucas and live the Dream.
Hope to see you this winter
Susan
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Dec 12, 2017 - 08:37am PT
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MikeL,
With all respect, Gloria's surname is Steinem, not Steinham.
And ding dong the wicked witch is deactivated. Good.
SusanA, truth is relative. It was given out as the truth. If you think it's the truth, it's good enough for you. If someone else's truth differs, so be it. I don't know you, but I respect your right to your version. Let's leave it there and have yourself a Merry Christmas.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Dec 12, 2017 - 11:07am PT
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I am having trouble getting a reply post through.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Dec 12, 2017 - 11:43am PT
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Thanks for sharing Happie.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Dec 12, 2017 - 11:56am PT
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Dec 12, 2017 - 11:59am PT
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Warbler wrote:
Never said that
Debate what I say if you like, Happie, but don't put words in my mouth to create a strawman argument.
That's nothing but a tacit admission that you can't argue with the point I'm actually making
Here's the post you made, that I was recalling, when I wrote mine. You posted:
False accusations can be more destructive to a man's life than actual unwanted sexual aggressions are to a woman, depending on the circumstances, but while intersectional feminists claim to fight for equality across gender, racial, ethnic, and income divides, they drop the ball when it comes to falsely accused males.
So I guess, that you are probably feeling you meant "up to, but not including, the legal definition of rape," when you referred to "unwanted sexual aggressions."
Is that what you meant?
Far enough, if that's the case, and my apology for not realizing that you draw a distinction in that continuum. It didn't occur to me that in discussing "false accusations," a guy had to actually force himself into the oriface of a woman for it to be as bad as losing one's job, having one's name in the local police blotter, and such for it to count as "bad enough."
wow......
I think we have met, Warbler, back at the Pit a few years ago? You and your partner had a camper? Or am I making an incorrect connection?
and....
I don't either, he/her whoever?
Should have used this 'person',
my bad, apologies to the ladies.
This is an example of how are not even aware that we use the pronoun "she" as a way to demean and diminish the standing of another. I wondered, when I read that, if the poster knew the gender of CWilmot and, like others, would have been very shocked to learn that was a female voice.
Times, they are a changing. Just like less than five years ago it was deemed "okay" to write "that's so gay," or jokingly call someone a "faggot," we've reached the point in our cultural evolution that it's not acceptable to refer to a person using a female gender identifier to "jokingly" give them a status as, for some reason, lower than that of "man."
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Dec 12, 2017 - 12:20pm PT
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"I wish I had half the balls you do"...
OMG Shoot me. I forgot we’re into political correctness here. ;)
My reference to “balls” as a testosterone infused body part that supposedly gives men the edge in all things living should bring a smile to Kevin’s face. I can see the “I told you so” smirk now!
So Hap I wish I had half the estrogen (or whatever gives you your get up and go...maybe it’s diet coke).
BTW. one of the best sailing doublehanders were a pair of women that won several Ca to Hawaii races and embroidered on their sailing jackets was “Dollz with Ballz”.
I guess it’s time to return to political correctness and leave gender out. I can do that for the sensitive new age types.
Susan
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Dec 12, 2017 - 02:00pm PT
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Locker
Is
Gonna
Get
The Boot!
I fall under some of those "catagories"!
Peace
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Dec 12, 2017 - 02:42pm PT
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Hats off to Callie for this one!
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Dec 12, 2017 - 02:44pm PT
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Kevin, you wrote:
Women in general have all the power they need in today's society - if anything the overall balance is in the females' favor as I see it.
I suspect you are not considering the range of needs that humans have. For example, consider these:
Many ambitious men want to have an impact on the world, want to see their ideas and efforts take shape into making something of value, want to leave a legacy. Many women want the same thing. I suspect this is a universal thing (or at least very common) when more basic needs are met, which is the point of that pyramid (both figuratively and literally).
My experience has been that women who are in positions of power are judged very differently, and pay a very different price for exercising that power, than men do. Even if you discard all the abusive uses of power, and just focus on ways in which leaders are tough and use their power effectively in difficult situations- men will be considered "tough but fair" or "effective leader" while women are called "bitch" for doing the same thing. I think it is because we project our images of an ideal soft and cuddly and nurturing mom onto women in positions of power, and judge them for not complying with that image. All people should be given the freedom to express multiple facets of themselves, a soft and cuddly and loving person and also a hard-assed business person, and also a witty comedian and lucid thinker and whatever else. But we stick people in boxes, and need labels, because we have a hard time grasping a totality of what people are and can be.
It is fashionable now for guys to praise women as being "powerful" and "strong" when it is all about words, images in a Nike commercial or a self-promotional Vimeo of the latest cutie climber. Our society tolerates that now. But when it comes to real "man's world" power, controlling the flow of money and resources and making decisions that dictate the requirements or behavior in other people, the support of women's power instantly erodes in our society.
When women are in positions of real power affecting others, they have a choice: be liked by people and slowly fail as people take advantage of your need to be liked, or do what is required in the care and exercise of that power and make enemies. To certain extent this is true for guys too, but guys are given WAY more tolerance and leniency to exercise their power without making enemies. The difference is between earning a peer's respect or making a life-long enemy of the peer, just based on whether it is a guy or a girl exercising the power in the same way. In some professional circles, this is huge for managing long-term relationships and long-term climbing in careers that require continual accumulation of power and responsibilities while managing relationships of many stakeholders.
Notice we aren't even arguing about these nuances. As a society, we are far from getting there. We are still arguing about the right for women to not be sexually violated, and for such violations to be enforced in our society.
So no Kevin, I do not think that our society is tilted excessively in favor of women or that they have all the power they need.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Dec 12, 2017 - 02:57pm PT
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When I was a kid I called a Cuban neighbor a "SPIC"...
My Father and Mother caught wind of it and I got a small lecture reminding me that my Mother is half Spanish...(That lecture STUCK)...
Oops!!!...
Guess it would have been fine if your mother wasn't "half Spanish"?
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Dec 12, 2017 - 03:50pm PT
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Locker's on fire! I'm impressed. Btw, way to go Callie!
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