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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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I think California’s doing just fine… we are the number one economy in the U.S. We are an economy larger than that of Russia as well as France and a number of other European countries. California pays far more into the federal coffers than it receives back. Many of the much more conservative states are essentially living off the teat of our good state, the state they denigrate with the label of “liberal.” Complain about the taxes and political foolishness of our legislators if you want to, but where do you really want to live? Kentucky? South Dakota? Long way to the beach! I love this state and I know we’ve loved it to death, but it’s still the best, most productive, most beautiful state in the union. And... we will eventually solve our water problems.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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And... we will eventually solve our water problems.
what do you think that problem is?
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pb
Sport climber
Sonora Ca
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I miss the river New Melones inundated. The Ohlone would miss what became Santa Clara, Pete misses the old forum, Moose his mind. Nice graphic Ed.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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I laugh robustly. Oh Blue, you're so silly.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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paul roehl took the words right out of my mouth.
The founders did not intend by that phrase what liberals now interpret it to mean.
Why do you say that?
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dirtbag
climber
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Typical frustrated liberal response.
And true. Flatearthers are lost causes.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself – that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink.
When did wanting to conserve resources make one an enemy of "Conservatives" and when did Progress become a bad thing?
p.s. Ed, thanks for digging up the water chart. One silver lining of these discussions is that people who are open to receiving information (typically those on the same side of these discussions) can become more informed with data and reason.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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I think California’s doing just fine… we are the number one economy in the U.S. We are an economy larger than that of Russia as well as France and a number of other European countries.
I'll drink a bottle of California Old Vine Vin to this!
Ed, That Joni Mitchell link made my day.
Here is another great ballad:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Thanks for the great post Ed, threads like this do a great job in educating those with an open mind. For those with closed minds, so sorry.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Look, I know you're not even remotely interested in facts, but you're ignoring every major study done to date on this subject.
Look, I know you're not even remotely interested in reading comprehension, but you're ignoring every major word I wrote on the subject.
"Public health insurance" is not "single-payer." Obamacare had NOTHING to do with single-payer; it was lobbied for and achieved by the insurance companies to produce for themselves a "captive audience," just as car-insurance companies enjoy. Obamacare "reformed" nothing and was not about the "public welfare" or "public health."
Nothing about Obamacare was a "step in the direction" of single-payer. The two approaches are apples-and-giraffes.
If you want to talk about single-payer, that's one thing. But you won't get any traction in an actual discussion by straw-manning "the other side."
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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How is tax payer subsidized water any different from tax payer subsidized healthcare?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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You don't think tax payer healthcare subsidies relieve industrialists like Walmart from paying the true cost of their workers, enabling them to pocket the difference?
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Look, I know you're not even remotely interested in reading comprehension, but you're ignoring every major word I wrote on the subject.
"Public health insurance" is not "single-payer." Obamacare had NOTHING to do with single-payer; it was lobbied for and achieved by the insurance companies to produce for themselves a "captive audience," just as car-insurance companies enjoy. Obamacare "reformed" nothing and was not about the "public welfare" or "public health."
Nothing about Obamacare was a "step in the direction" of single-payer. The two approaches are apples-and-giraffes.
Sorry, I may have misunderstood. If you support single-payer, we're basically on the same page.
Curt
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Also, single payer healthcare would relieve all of corporate America of a big cost to them. This in fact is one of the *benefits* of single payer.
True. And another reason why corporate America (and hence Republicans) should support it.
Curt
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Trump already said he would fix California's water problems.
You got Der Gropenfuhrer, Republican Senate, Republican House, what the f*#k else do you need Blue?
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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what do you think that problem is?
Primarily the management of California's water resources, including the amount of surface water that is lost to evaporation due to current storage and conveyance practices and the overdraft and depletion of ground water resources that took decades to centuries to accumulate resulting in permanent loss of aquifer storage due to subsidence.
https://ca.water.usgs.gov/data/drought/drought-water-decisions.html
Negative impacts of drought conditions...
Loss of forest resources, especially large trees in the Coast Range & Sierra Nevada due to water stress & related disease (bark beetle).
http://conservationmagazine.org/2015/01/shifting-california-forests-reveal-complex-effects-of-drought/
Loss of sensitive alpine ecosystems.
https://www.werc.usgs.gov/ProductDetails.aspx?ID=5495
On the other hand, this study shows that Central Valley agriculture as a whole is resilient to severe drought.
//Simulating the Impact of Drought on California’s Central Valley Hydrology,
Groundwater and Cropping
British Journal of Environment & Climate Change
3(3): 271-291, 2013//
The linked hydro-economic model is used to simulate the effects of several drought
scenarios on Central Valley’s agriculture and the groundwater resources. The drought
scenarios are constructed as surface flow reductions that range from 30% to 70% for
periods spanning from 10 to 60 years, with a 10-year spin-up and a 30-year recovery.
The main finding is that Central Valley agriculture as a whole is resilient to severe drought.
Despite an almost 40% cut in surface water deliveries for irrigation, the region
suffers only a 10% cut in irrigated crop acres. However, after 60 critically dry years in a
row, the linked model suggests that there will be regional impacts, including moderate
impacts in the north Central Valley (Sacramento River Basin), locally severe in the middle of the Valley (San Joaquin River Basin), and severe in the south (Tulare Basin). The model runs indicate that extensive pumping during such a drought can cause permanent subsidence and may lead to new equilibrium groundwater levels.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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I paid $10k this month in taxes for a company that nets less than $40k annually.
That's on you, dude. You have a poor business plan.
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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I paid $10k this month in taxes for a company that nets less than $40k annually.
This is the real reas
That's on you, dude. You have a poor business plan.
Straight up
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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That's on you, dude. You have a poor business plan.
My 'Poor business plans' have bought us three homes and supported a family of 6 comfortably over the last decade.
You?
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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Then why are you bitching about your tax rate?
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