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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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It sucks what Erik Sloan is doing to Yosemite in his skewed vision as a "steward". I believe it has been demonstrated on other threads that Sloan exhibits many characteristics of a sociopath.
With his crazed determination to grid bolt every square inch of the Valley, Sloan is in effect raising a middle finger at everyone who has had the determination, skill and vision to orchestrate a new route. His dogged lust to dumb down every route to the lowest common denominator robs future generations the right to seek out true adventure and challenge. Sadly, as the gyms crank out more and more climbers, some people might come to emulate this total lack of ethics and respect shown by Sloan.
One can hope the law enforcement officers responsible for protecting our communal property will take notice of Sloan's criminal activities (I.e. using a power drill, illegal trail construction) and arrest him. With luck the local judge will make an example of him, punishing him with exorbitant fines and perhaps banning him forever from our national parks.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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LOUD NOISES
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Afraid not, Anita...
Are you in favor of dumbing down routes?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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I agree with albatross, rgold and their like. Had there been some community discussion re the pros and cons, assuming the issue was ever raised, then fine. However, in its current form it is just dumbing down the commitment of the route (which isn't that great to begin with). While I can see how it may also help out those in the odd, unexpected pickle, I suspect it will more likely be used by the overly ambitious NIAD parties who go up without the requisite skill or experience, knowing thry can bail more easily, making a REALLY crowded route even more so.
BTW, when was it determined that chipping was worse than unnecessary bolts?
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WBraun
climber
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I suspect it will more likely be used by the overly ambitious NIAD parties who go up without the requisite skill or experience,
knowing they can bail more easily, making a REALLY crowded route even more so.
Oh bullsh!t .....
The Nose has already for over 40 years been set up to bail easily from anywhere.
With his crazed determination to grid bolt every square inch of the Valley,
Grid bolt every square inch? You're full of sh!t.
You people even climb ever?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Albert climbs quite a bit Werner. His point in exaggerating a bit is where will this end up when you are dealing with someone so drill happy and above self-restraint.
Ease of exit off of the Nose isn't really the issue as you point out. This is about something far less practical than that.
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TLP
climber
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The Nose has already for over 40 years been set up to bail easily from anywhere.
True that, but that's why a lot of folks think yet more easy bail routes are not warranted. There already is one. An argument can certainly be made that fixing things so that it's just 2 stations between Sickle and the ground instead of 3 is an improvement, but a THIRD rap route there really seems like overkill, no? Relieving congestion would take 5 or 10 bolted rap/haul routes in that same stretch.... which would just translocate the cluster further up the cliff and make SAR's job harder when they need to go up there. The only lasting solution is that it will be self-limiting: when the crowd on the lower Nose gets to be too much of a problem, people will go climb something else.
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WBraun
climber
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Ease of exit off of the Nose isn't really the issue as you point out.
I know Steve better then anyone what the real issue is.
I know you do too .....
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Basically is this all in an attempt to provide easy pay to play set ups?
Some version of:
Meet me in the gym prove you can pull, pay me for a weekend trip up the nose?
If I were that accomplished young buck in my rear view mirror, I would have already bowed down to this sad chapter.
The page has been written, going back seems pointless; there are hundreds more entitled high school "romantics" with dreams of being the next 'No No Nanook'
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Brothers and sisters can you please slip me a $20? This is all about the campfires, the good vibes and the happiness of the scene. I am here to help you, to ensure that your climbing is friendly and super fun! Send money now via my paypal account!!! WooHoo!
I've been hard at work, adding bolts all over Yosemite Valley. It's all for you and your convenience. It's all part of my plan, to make Yosemite a friendlier, safer and more joyous environment, for everyone, for all to enjoy this wonder of creation! Adding bolts makes sense, it's all about power to the people and turning El Cap into the gym crag that it should be. We should all be able to enjoy El Capitan! More bolts = more people! WooHoo!
Give me money. I have big dreams. These bolt dreams cost big money. Send money to me now, so that I can build upon these dreams for everyone and we can all live in harmony and climb El Cap. And we'll start a ranch and we will have all peoples getting together, singing songs and being safe and happy and having fun! WooHoo!
Contributions of $50 or more will receive a "Like" on FB. A "C-note" will receive a # on my Instragram account. Send money to me now.
I will tame this wild beat that is Yosemite. More bolts = safety = fun!
Welcome to the future.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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So uninformed, unintelligent or not, my comment is that Sloan's work is (most optimistically an unwitting) part of a trend that wants to rend the fabric of climbing as an activity that is part of the natural scene and is subject, for better or worse, to the vagaries of nature, and replace it with a Frankenstein-like monster, neither fully natural nor fully artificial, tailored ultimately to personal convenience, and offering a sanitized version of nature to a population that increasingly demands it. Is the Nose too far gone for this to matter? Perhaps, but as part of a bigger phenomenon that is accelerated by every "improvement" to the natural scene, there is still reason for climbers with all kinds of differing perspectives to be concerned.
So if the climbing population increasingly demands a new way of climbing are you old farts going to stand with arms crossed and prevent them from doing it?
Just like all the pioneers of the 50's and 60's prevented the new style that took over in the 70's and 80's. Oh wait...
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Typical retard that doesn't know the difference between ethics and style.
This discussion is not about climbing or FA style. Its about ethics. There's a difference and the fact that you (and others) can't discern the difference could explain why some tard is running around putting bolts in to suit his whims without severe on-the-street penalties.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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^^^
What, are YOU gonna do something about it, Lil Bang Bang?
Come out of retirement, climb up there and chop the bolts you rail about?
Or just keep talking, and talking, and talking....
Don't you have to go shoot your "gun" or something?
Your opinion on the subject is obviously not relevant.
500$ says you do nothing but shitpost about it.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Look who's posting. Do you even climb bro? Pigeons tomorrow, you down?
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Yep, I actually do sweetie.
So...... Are you gonna just talk about it, or what?
An easy 500$ for you. All you have to do is go up there...
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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how does one even have sex with a pigeon?
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Despite the fact that I actually am an active climber, unlike Lil Bang Bang who does nothing but talk and shoot, my opinion on the matter is also irrelevant, I think, because I don't climb in Yosemite. If the locals (whatever that means) can't police themselves, they've got nobody to blame.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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i've heard pigeons very much like peanutbutter;)
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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So if the climbing population increasingly demands a new way of climbing are you old farts going to stand with arms crossed and prevent them from doing it?
Nope, not standin' and not preventin'; just sittin' on the porch in my rocker observin'. Don't generally mind the new ways neither, just think you don't have to convert everything to the new way, that's all.
But dag nab it, it might be that some o' them porch-top ramblings might be worth a moment or two of the young-un's consideration. I've had my day; they're the ones with a lot to lose, they're the ones that have already lost a lot, mebbe without even knowing it. Not me, I been to the mountaintop. The Valley is all yours.
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