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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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"levers in tight
chimneys." =femur ratio
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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BBA,
I suppose it would be too much to ask...
to see the proofs!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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BBA wrote:
"he said his theology class had a single question for the final, prove or rebut the five proofs of the existence of god as set out by Aquinas. Through the various weekend climbs I got him to agree on how to rebut four, but we hadn't gotten to the last one about there needing to be a beginning point."
This is such entertaining reading!
Eric Beck: your passage is really fun too.
Getting first-hand impressions of people like Sacherer,
Many of us, in particular those focused on free climbing, have been thirsting for stuff like this for over 30 years.
Much Thanks,
Roy
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BBA
Social climber
petaluma ca
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In December 1961 the snow cone had grown to huge proportions under the Upper Yosemite Falls. It is a phenomenon caused by ice forming high on the cliffs and then crashing down in the morning and piling up. In a dry December with very low night temperatures it got big. Maybe global warming has stopped the formation. Down the middle of the cone was a hole into which the falls disappeared.
Roper was recovering from his near fatal accident with Frank on Clouds Rest, so Frank asked if I wanted to go up and climb the snow cone. So we headed out. The hike was nothing and we got to the cone and started kicking up in boots. It wasn't steep and we both had ice axes. Frank was going ahead and getting very high and I said we should rope up and set belays. "What's the matter, you chickensh..? I want to look down the hole."
I replied that if he wanted to it was OK with me, but what if the lip overhung like a cornice. Frank absoultely froze at that point, came down and we belayed each other up for a look over the lip. It was so strange to see all that water disappear without a whisper.
BBA
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Jack Burns
climber
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This is a kick ass thread. It's worth weeding through all the dreck to find gems like this. Thanks to all the climbers from the olden days for sharing.
"Get back up there, you chickensh#t."
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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I'd like to hear a bunch more from Eric B. about the FFA of the DNB and all the other stuff we missed out on.
JL
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Dana Glacier 1960
Classic Sacherer.
First time on ice.
Denny, Sacherer and I, borrowed a vast array of "state of the art ice climbing paraphernalia" from Wayne Merry for an afternoon of self instruction. Check out these ice screws!
I will do a post up of the trip in the future with more photos.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2008 - 06:40pm PT
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I've asked around a bit, mostly my CERN physicist friends who climb, about Sacherer's climbing in Europe but didn't get much of a response. Anyone here have any leads on who climbed with Sacherer there?
I've talked to people who were involved in the accelerator work, but they weren't climbers. There are a set of Sacherer stories from that side of his activities which sound a lot like the climbing side...
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scuffy b
climber
On the dock in the dark
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I think those ice screws were discussed in a recent obscure
protection thread--forged from English train carriage bolts?
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Interesting to hear the stories from Sacherer's old partners.
I greatly admired his climbs. Jesuit-Physicist-Rockclimber.
That was the last generation of amateurs to really change the sport.
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BBA
Social climber
petaluma ca
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Nov 16, 2008 - 11:58am PT
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Little Joe (Guido), as he exits the USA, just sent to me the letters I'd written to him. This one is from 9/3/62 while I was in the army:
"...I got a letter from Jeff[Foott], and things sound pretty wiped out up there [in the Valley], especially with Sacherer being in the hospital. It was bound to happen to him the way he climbed with his head up his ass. Maybe he will have learned something that will keep him alive from here on if he continues to climb. Then again, maybe he climbs the way we all should; perhaps he is the only courageous one and we're all chickenshits..."
Does anyone know what happened to Frank to put him in the hospital then?
One of the ideas Frank and I used to talk about was why seeming buffons like Cooper would do big walls. We came up with a list, and it included resources (money enough for all those ropes and time away from work), some physical condition and some degree of technical ability. It left off courage, putting yourself out there and going for it, pushing limits, and that is what Frank did in spades.
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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Nov 16, 2008 - 12:46pm PT
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Frank took an 80 footer on the North Buttress of Lower Cathedral Rock, a route which I believe is no longer done. He was aid climbing and had omitted clipping into a number of pitons(Chickenshit to clip them all?). I think he was with Kamps but not sure. He cracked a rib. He was tied in with a Swami, which caught under the lowest rib. The prescribed treatment was no treatment. It eventually healed, but with an asymmetric bulge on one side.
I am writing this from snowy Kalamazoo where Lori and I are visiting her Mom.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 16, 2008 - 01:29pm PT
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Eric,
While you are present...what was the bargain between you and Roper which allowed you to step out and and he to step in on the FA of the West Buttress with Kor. Kor mentioned recently that it was a small amount of cash and a couple of bongs. Would you care to elaborate?
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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Nov 16, 2008 - 01:32pm PT
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No bargain. This was a project which I was far from ready for, having done only one V up until then. I was happy for Roper to take my place.
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BBA
Social climber
petaluma ca
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Nov 16, 2008 - 02:53pm PT
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The North Buttress of Lower was one of the least appealing climbs I remember doing. Lots of dirt. So Frank came out lopsided! That also happened to Tom Naylor on a 120 foot fall I held on Ahwahnee Buttress when he didn't exercise care in using pitons left in the route. Big zipper. No swami belt, just a knot that pulled his rib cage up permanently.
Speaking of the Ahwahnee Buttress, I have a letter someone named Wayne who worked at the Lodge sent to Little Joe on 2/7/62:
"...The day before yesterday Frank Sacherer and I started the Ahw. Buttress on my afternoon off and we left a rope to sunset ledge and we were going to finish it yesterday on my day off but it rained and that really shot the sh#t out of that and really looked like a good climb. If I don't get it done before you get up here this summer you and I will have to do it..."
With Roper still under the weather and Frank and I no longer climbing together, Frank hooked up with this fellow Wayne. I attempted to one up Frank by doing the route with Tom Naylor, and he took his huge fall which was really traumatic for him to take and for me to hold and then have to get him down with one rope.
Since I left so much iron up there I had to get up it quick and luckily Kor became available and we were up in 4 hrs. For a time after that it seems Frank wasn't around. Maybe he was doing his Saturday penance or couldn't stand to hear anyone ask him why he'd placed a fixed rope on a four hour climb.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 16, 2008 - 03:15pm PT
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Thanks for clearing up that little historical tidbit, Eric. How is it that you and Layton teamed up for such a grand project at the outset, just one year after doing the Kor-Beck together? Had you done very much aid climbing at that point beyond one Grade V?
Was the Wayne in question Wayne Merry? Great tales of BIG FALLS, Bill!!!! Caught with a hip belay, no less! Thanks for sharing them.
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BBA
Social climber
petaluma ca
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Nov 16, 2008 - 03:26pm PT
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Wasn't Wayne Merry. Merry was a ranger (he rescued one of my partners who got bit by a rattlesnake - another story). This was a kid working for Curry, and he only signed his letter to Joe with "See you, Wayne". Maybe Guido will check in and tell. Catching Naylor I was in a hip belay standing in slings and there were a couple of pitons above so it was a no sweat hold for me. Naylor goes flying down by me then takes a glorious goldline bounce back above me and settles almost next to me. I was lucky he didn't land on me. The timing was excellent for Roper. He was working in the Ahwahnee kitchen and came out for a break to watch us climb and saw the fall as it happened and came running over to the talus to see if we were OK. It was hard getting down with one rope and an injured partner. The worst part was at the bottom Naylor insisted I find his watch which had been stripped from his wrist in the fall. He couldn't walk due to a severe ankle sprain and here I am wandering the talus looking for a watch. I found it, and it stopped at the time of the fall, 9am+ something.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Nov 17, 2008 - 04:01am PT
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Good to hear from my old friend Eric Beck. Do you remember that climb we did on the Owls? Others... trying to dig them out of my memory... Sounds as though you are well...
Good stuff about Sacherer. As I read through this whole thread I see lots of factual errors, but oh well... people don't seem to like it when you suggest things happened a different way, so I'm shutting up on correcting things.
I will say Sacherer pushed the limits for his day, but more accurate might be to say he pushed HIS limits. He was a wild man of sort. By the way, he called several people chicken-st, including Kor one day. They were doing a route on the Arches, and Sacherer started leading a long traverse left. The only hard part of the traverse is the first move off the belay. He made the move, with the protection of Kor right there nearby, but then ran it out a long way. Kor said, "Frank, put something in for me." Obviously if Layton fell off that first move he'd take a huge, wild swing. Sacherer turned back and said, "Shut up, Kor, you chickenst." Layton himself told me that story, so I think it's reliable. And I have already written above about the Erb story, how that actually went down.
Pratt had that remarkable control and beauty of technique. Sacherer had the go for it mentality... TM tells a story only as TM can tell a story, of roping up with Frank, and Frank assessing the crack pitch ahead and saying something to the effect of, "I don't think I'll have the strength to stop and put anything in. Watch me, here I go." And that was a little like Frank, to just go up and do it, and not worry about things too much, but be very determined, somewhat at the risk of companions... He didn't have the raw talent of several of the others, as he is often touted to have had, people such as Kamps or Pratt, or probably even Robbins either, but Frank had that will to push it, and that kind of mind can take you some pretty wild places. He also had a perfect body for certain types of cracks. Someone mentioned his thin chest and relatively wide shoulders... perfect for such a crack as Hour Glass right side. He was dang good and bold as heck.
Frank came to visit me in Boulder once, and we had good conversations... I had climbed a fair bit with his wife, Jan, before they were married. And before that, briefly, she was Layton's girl friend. Haven't seen Jan in a long time...
Pat Ament
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 17, 2008 - 10:55am PT
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This is one of the best qoutes on Sacherer "...especially with Sacherer being in the hospital. It was bound to happen to him the way he climbed with his head up his ass. Maybe he will have learned something that will keep him alive from here on if he continues to climb. Then again, maybe he climbs the way we all should; perhaps he is the only courageous one and we're all chickenshits..." The existential question of all great climbers.
Thanks Bill.
Hey, Jeff, can you talk Bonnie into posting up on ST? I know she reads it a bit. It would be so nice to have here post Bob's side of these tales and her take on the Valley history from the 60s.
BTW Bill, do you climb any these days? You would have enjoyed the Nose 50 reunion. And we would have enjoyed you.
Good start to a Monday.
Best, Roger
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 17, 2008 - 11:08am PT
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I second that motion!
Bonnie- come join the fun directly if you please! Your input would be greatly appreciated and respected so pull up a virtual log round and chew the fat with us by the fire. We would love to hear your perspective on the many characters that you and Bob hung out with BITD.
Cheers-Steve
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