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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Mar 20, 2015 - 07:17am PT
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We're all on our way out... act accordingly
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mcolombo
Trad climber
Heidelberg, Germany
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Mar 20, 2015 - 07:18am PT
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I predict he will live his life fully untill he dies.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Mar 20, 2015 - 07:58am PT
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Father Sanctimony has spoken, everybody disperse.
Made me spit coffee.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Mar 20, 2015 - 08:13am PT
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Wait a minute!!! So if you place one bullet in a six shooter, spin the chamber, place it to your temple and pull the trigger.......and get real lucky
Probability is 5/6, about .83, in your favor.
...it won't affect your lifespan if you then repeat that procedure once a week for years to come?
Different question. If you plan on doing this once a week for ten years, 52*10 = 520 more times, the probability you'll survive all of those is (5/6)^520 = 7*10^(-42), astronomically small (that's 7 with 41 zeroes in front of it).
Stopping a dangerous game won't stack the odds in your favor?
Still another question. But say you did survive the first 519 of those spins. Probability now that you'll survive the 520th? Still 5/6. Luck doesn't remember.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 20, 2015 - 08:22am PT
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Hmmm, I personally never experience soloing as a matter of 'ego', but rather simply of an odd 'pre-aware' sense of confidence and outcome. Also, the distinction between calm/confident and desperate/sketch soloing is vast and terrifying. Having experienced the former and witnessed the latter all I can say is I can't imagine or fathom what was going through the minds of the sketch artists I've seen survive one sewing-machine near-disaster after another.
Personally I think Alex on solo is safer than the vast majority of sport crossovers attempting to climb trad; they can be truly horrifying to watch in 'action'. Overall I view soloing as a matter of taking greater risks, but within a highly constrained and boxed risk context. Sure, you're taking a 'greater' risk, but hopefully - by way of skill, experience and control - you've shrunk or constrained the risk context down to where it's more than manageable. By contrast, the risk context associated with a sport crossover to trad is enormous compared to that of Alex's 'average' solo outing.
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2015 - 08:40am PT
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The Nuke is coming.....
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 20, 2015 - 08:43am PT
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WHY ^^^^ ???
Stop worrying what others always think.
There's nothing wrong here other than some people have a big stick up their ass ....
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 20, 2015 - 08:45am PT
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Free soloists all know the risks and accept them.
Their friends might or might not.
Their family members might or might not.
Life is NOT a static sterile you want it your way world ever .......
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2015 - 08:58am PT
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I agree Werner.
People just seem to be getting really butt hurt on this topic.
Like I said though before, I literally have been asked the same question the thread title poses by non-climbers.
I think people just get upset by discussing it in the public forum. But jeez half the stuff on here by that logic falls into the "just nuke it" category.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Mar 20, 2015 - 09:12am PT
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Please don't nuke, this is a good thread spawned by a hardball question.
You're gonna get some spitballs thrown in the game, nothing unexpected.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Mar 20, 2015 - 09:32am PT
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It's a fine thread in my opinion. A valid question everyone has thought about anyway. No point to ignoring the elephant in the room regarding Alex'es very public choices. The discussion has been respectful and in some cases thoughtful. Much better than most discussions on ST. I have heard some pretty legendary climbers say harsher things than anyone here has regarding what he is doing.
I've got nothing harsh to say as I strongly believe in a persons right to live and take risks as they choose. However I have not lost anyone super close to me because of high risk taking... perhaps if I had dealt with that experience I might feel differently. Perhaps I am unqualified to have the opinion I have.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 20, 2015 - 09:48am PT
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However I have not lost anyone super close to me because of high risk taking...
I have, but not climbing. Motorcycles, cars, mountain bikes, skis, planes, scuba. Climbing is like the safest of the lot...
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2015 - 09:52am PT
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It's a fine thread in my opinion. A valid question everyone has thought about anyway. No point to ignoring the elephant in the room regarding Alex'es very public choices. The discussion has been respectful and in some cases thoughtful. Much better than most discussions on ST. I have heard some pretty legendary climbers say harsher things than anyone here has regarding what he is doing.
Well put.
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leopop
climber
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Mar 20, 2015 - 10:20am PT
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I agree. Have you seen half the posts that go up on this forum? This is a valid thread, so relax folks.
More so than questioning Honnold's longevity, I question the impact and the indirect influence he is having on amateur soloists. Don't get me wrong, I think the guy has unquestionable talent, and privately he is probably living a very fulfilling life. But why then does he strike up deals with Sender Films and other film companies that expose his wild antics to the public? These media companies advertise soloing as the next level of extreme climbing. This "next level" view of soloing is what is damaging, in my opinion. Honnold is a smart dude, he knows this will happen. He has seen it happen and continues to interview and allow Sender to throw him in the public light and glorify his extreme soloing.
Of course, I believe in freedom of speech, and Honnold can do whatever the hell he wants. But just like everything, there are consequences to actions. He may not even be the one directly to blame (if there is any blame to be had). Honnold is a freak of nature. That's how he needs to be featured in all these films. Instead, soloing is glorified and Honnold is featured as the one spearheading this "next-level" movement.
I too, know this guy that Brother Bock has spoken about. I've climbed with him and run with him. It breaks my heart to see the level of physical and emotional pain he is going through. Of course, he doesn't blame anyone for his mistakes. He doesn't point the finger at Honnold or the soloing movement. He even wants to climb (with a rope of course) once again, if that is possible. But even he will admit to you that he got caught up in this next-level mentality and didn't think twice about what he was doing and the consequences if anything went wrong.
In the end, it was his choice and his responsibility. His fall ultimately was due to a foothold that broke off the wall. But it saddens me too. I guess I want to point the finger, when ultimately it was this guy's fault. But if there was anyway to eliminate how "badass" soloing looks to climbers, I would be for that too. Unlike other extreme sports, free-soloing doesn't LOOK like it involves extra skill and doesn't require any extra or special gear... so it appears to be far more accessible to an amateur.
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jstan
climber
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Mar 20, 2015 - 10:31am PT
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I agree. Have you seen half the posts that go up on this forum? This is a valid thread, so relax folks.
More so than questioning Honnold's longevity, I question the impact and the indirect influence he is having on amateur soloists. Don't get me wrong, I think the guy has unquestionable talent, and privately he is probably living a very fulfilling life. But why then does he strike up deals with Sender Films and other film companies that expose his wild antics to the public? These media companies advertise soloing as the next level of extreme climbing. This "next level" view of soloing is what is damaging, in my opinion. Honnold is a smart dude, he knows this will happen. He has seen it happen and continues to interview and allow Sender to throw him in the public light and glorify his extreme soloing.
Of course, I believe in freedom of speech, and Honnold can do whatever the hell he wants. But just like everything, there are consequences to actions. He may not even be the one directly to blame (if there is any blame to be had). Honnold is a freak of nature. That's how he needs to be featured in all these films. Instead, soloing is glorified and Honnold is featured as the one spearheading this "next-level" movement.
I too, know this guy that Brother Bock has spoken about. I've climbed with him and run with him. It breaks my heart to see the level of physical and emotional pain he is going through. Of course, he doesn't blame anyone for his mistakes. He doesn't point the finger at Honnold or the soloing movement. He even wants to climb (with a rope of course) once again, if that is possible. But even he will admit to you that he got caught up in this next-level mentality and didn't think twice about what he was doing and the consequences if anything went wrong.
In the end, it was his choice and his responsibility. His fall ultimately was due to a foothold that broke off the wall. But it saddens me too.
leopop
There it is folks. We have an important new voice on ST.
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leopop
climber
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Mar 20, 2015 - 10:45am PT
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Ha ha. Thanks for that intro Jstan. I like to do more reading than writing. ;-)
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Mar 20, 2015 - 10:57am PT
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I have, but not climbing.
You're fortunate then, a lot of us could not say that.
There it is folks. We have an important new voice on ST.
Yes, quite the debut leopop!
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drewsky
climber
Seattle
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Mar 20, 2015 - 11:18am PT
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I've never gotten the sense from watching climbing media that there's a 'movement' associated with modern soloists. To wit, I disagree with the assertion that media featuring soloing is intended to glorify the activity; doubtless the commercial element and its association with something like soloing puts some people off, but nowhere is there a proverbial green light being shown for others to go out and try this stuff. Rather I think the media is showcasing the cutting edge of our sport and, yes, making a buck or two or three.
Anyone who climbs and who has an ounce of sense will be familiar with his or her personal limits and will take responsibility if something goes wrong. I think it's erroneous to associate Honnold and others with some sort of 'movement'; there isn't some sort of collective goal to be badass, it's more that there's always going to be people pushing the perceived boundaries just like those before them did.
Isn't that why we all climb in the first place, is to push boundaries and explore the space therein?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Mar 20, 2015 - 11:29am PT
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Ha ha. Thanks for that intro Jstan. I like to do more reading than writing. ;-)
That would be a bit unusual around here at times too!
Nobody has to announce a movement like this. When pitons came out, everyone wanted some. When Friends came out, we all wanted a set, same with sticky rubber. To think that young guys aren't seeing Alex on film and being inspired to do the same?
There have always been soloists, in fact the way the whole game was begun. But there's a whole new population, and a much larger one getting sucked in even as we write. Cause and effect.
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2015 - 11:53am PT
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There have always been soloists, in fact the way the whole game was begun. But there's a whole new population, and a much larger one getting sucked in even as we write. Cause and effect.
Exactly.
Honnold just happens to be at the forefront.
Hence, he was the obvious person I thought of when retelling my buddies recent accident.
I also think that Chiloe the master of statistics makes some valid points as well. Long-run probability calculations are how casinos and insurance companies know they'll make money.
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