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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Apr 10, 2014 - 11:58am PT
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Jesse said: "Now I get it! Next time I find a cow trampling MY wilderness, I can slaughter it and eat it fer dinner! Now, that is proper use of MY land!"
I'm eating at Jesses place. He'll have lots of extra fair trade free range meat since Werner is all veggie like. Man, this topic and this thread was made for Ron Anderson. BTW NWO, there is a process and oversight. I agree with you that the gov is getting too big, too intrusive, but this guy has no more right to graze his cows there for free than my mom would.
Non-issue. Those are some interesting comments in that section under that article though. Wow.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
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Captain Reporter at 3:15 "They tazed my cousin just because we had a couple questions."
It's clear to anyone how aggro these protesters are.
If I was a BLM dude, I'd be pretty worried about what these people are capable of.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:36pm PT
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Here's our friend Alex Jones, who starts his broadcast with:
"Over 250 armed Feds, with armored vehicles, helicopters and drones, are massing, to kick the open range grazer off the federal "quote", land."
I guess I missed the 250 armed Feds, armored vehicles, helicopters and drones in the video. He also says "At gunpoint". I saw tazers, dogs and about 20 (maybe) officers? He also says they will arrest "anyone that holds up a sign". I saw signs, but no arrests......
This dude will say anything.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:41pm PT
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Survival, ya dummy, that's The New World Order Math.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:41pm PT
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The individual Tazed was a 57 year old woman. BLM brought out a backhoe to bury the killed cows on the spot. Killing mother cows and leaving the orphaned calves to die. Real "humanitarian," they are. Where is PETA when they might actually serve a real purpose?
Addressing the "custom and practice" in the West, as pertaining to acquisition of "rights." I'm not anywhere close to being a lawyer, but my understanding of both water and grazing rights, is they accrue to the first appropriator who "makes beneficial use thereof." This is the basis of all adjudicated water rights in Colorado, Wyoming, and to my knowledge, the other western states (Nevada included). How this affects grazing rights--I haven't a clue. I don't have any "public lands" upon which I operate. My ranch is 100% privately owned real estate, as demonstrated by the ghastly property taxes I pay every year. The issue here is lands which were free range before the inception of the BLM are also subject to "Grandfathered" appropriation. The huge amount of otherwise "worthless" land "owned" by the Federal Government also impoverishes the various counties by being exempt from property taxes. This is land, which not that many years ago, would have sold for $1.00/ acre, and had no buyers waiting in line. But--somebody's gonna' get either hurt or killed in this faceoff.
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:57pm PT
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^^^^ so true
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 10, 2014 - 02:09pm PT
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Addressing the "custom and practice" in the West, as pertaining to acquisition of "rights." I'm not anywhere close to being a lawyer, but my understanding of both water and grazing rights, is they accrue to the first appropriator who "makes beneficial use thereof." This is the basis of all adjudicated water rights in Colorado, Wyoming, and to my knowledge, the other western states (Nevada included). How this affects grazing rights--I haven't a clue. I don't have any "public lands" upon which I operate. My ranch is 100% privately owned real estate, as demonstrated by the ghastly property taxes I pay every year. The issue here is lands which were free range before the inception of the BLM are also subject to "Grandfathered" appropriation. The huge amount of otherwise "worthless" land "owned" by the Federal Government also impoverishes the various counties by being exempt from property taxes. This is land, which not that many years ago, would have sold for $1.00/ acre, and had no buyers waiting in line. But--somebody's gonna' get either hurt or killed in this faceoff.
You better hope you are wrong. Because if you are right, then me and my indian brothers, who were grazing before any o' you whites showed up, are going to graze on YOUR property. Because the Feds sold the land to you, or allowed you to stake claims, does not change the fact that we came first. The stealing of our grazing rights on your land, and selling it to you does not negate our right! Doesn't matter if you paid tax, it was illegal in the first place.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 10, 2014 - 02:22pm PT
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The pop-ups on this site are amusing. When I click on the "health care" thread, I get a pop-up for health insurance. When I clicked on this thread, I got a pop-up for criminal defense counsel.
John
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 10, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
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Ken-
Nope. It doesn't work that way. Your "ancestors" did not occupy and make improvements to the land, since they were nomadic. Appropriation of water involves building diversion structures and irrigation ditch systems. Your ancestors simply were hunters and gatherers, not residents utilizing the grazing for domesticated livestock. The bison were transients through the land. The closest I can find would be the Anasazi, or "Ancient Ones" in the Mesa Verde/Chaco Culture. They actually built irrigation reservoirs, grew crops, and had domesticated turkeys. But...you'll need to talk with "Uncle," since HE's appropriated that land...after the Ancient Ones departed 900 years ago. It's now all National Parks. (Mesa Verde N/P., and Chaco Culture national park). You. LOSE.
P.S. You also need to consider the language of the treaties the Native Americans "signed," which forfeited their claims to this land, in exchange for the reservations. Yeah, it was not a good business deal on their parts, but the alternative was worse: extinction.
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 03:09pm PT
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Glad to see they are finally removing that freeloading pos and his cows from public lands.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Apr 10, 2014 - 03:19pm PT
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I'm gonna start slaughtering livestock on trails. Damn pack horses. I need some more glue anyway.
And Ken, we don't need to consider Native American land rights. They're a conquered people.
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Dal Maxvill
Social climber
Granite City, Illinois
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Apr 10, 2014 - 04:07pm PT
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Addressing the "custom and practice" in the West, as pertaining to acquisition of "rights." I'm not anywhere close to being a lawyer, but my understanding of both water and grazing rights, is they accrue to the first appropriator who "makes beneficial use thereof."
If you occupied and improved your neighbor's property, you could eventually obtain title by adverse possession. The federal lands are immune to adverse possession, so this guy has no unwritten rights to that property.
However, if he starts moving on to your privately owned land, you'd better start shootin' them cows.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 10, 2014 - 04:13pm PT
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Bend over Brokendown Rodger, here I come, Obama's Stormtrooper of Death
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 10, 2014 - 04:24pm PT
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Your "ancestors" did not occupy and make improvements to the land, since they were nomadic.
Not true. Read about Anasazi and Mogollon cultures. What about all the pueblo peoples that built towns and grew crops, pretty much year round? Mound builders were crop growers and irrigators. So were numerous central American cultures.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 10, 2014 - 04:25pm PT
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Glad to see they are finally removing that freeloading pos and his cows from public lands.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 10, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
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Survival--
You didn't read all my post, since I made that exact statement. The Anasazi were exceptional in that the were actually sedentary agriculturalists. But they abandoned the land in ~1100 AD. There were no sedentary agriculturalists in Nevada until whitey showed up.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 10, 2014 - 04:53pm PT
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Brokedown, my post did refer to Anasazi, but also multiple other crop growing cultures.
None of this however, justifies Joe public thinking that the land belongs to his cows in perpetuity.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 10, 2014 - 04:56pm PT
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Look on the bright side, one more opportunity to exterminate some of these "sovereign citizen" vermin.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 05:01pm PT
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These threads are awesome just because I get linked to "news" websites that I never knew existed that are unequivocally amazing. Patdollard.com Theblaze.com This sh#t is mind blowing.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 10, 2014 - 05:16pm PT
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There were certainly other agricultural societies among the native Americans, but we're discussing the western USA, not the Mississippi river mound builders. And not the central Americans either since they aren't relevant to this so-called "discussion/slander fest."
My problem here is not whether the rancher is right or wrong, but with the tactics involved going out to simply slaughter the cows which are privately owned, and on the other hand letting the burros run and reproduce out of control while devastating the land. There are a lot fewer of the cows than burros, and the cows are periodically "harvested" by rounding up and selling some of them for the food chain.
My problem is with the concept of being the biggest and baddest bully in the neighborhood...with guns, helicopters, and tazers being used on 57 year old women.
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