Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
LEB- that doesn't mean you hafta post every 10 minutes about your stupid panel. this isn't narnia.
Nef- whatever you think of her beaver, she is every bit as much a part of any "community" as richard or mark, and they are the ones who are out to remake their legacy. if they are gonna get there (which i doubt) they better at least hear that there are people who think reconsidering the legacy of WoS absurd on it's face, otherwise they start chirping about "concensus", and bickering w/ lois about whether or not bridwell "gets to be" on "the jury" (w/ you, apparently).
is lois already booking the confrence room at some PoS hotel near the airport?
|
|
Mimi
Trad climber
Seattle
|
|
Necro posts: You're a sarcastic beaver, aren't you? Just makes me wonder who enhanced your route to make you so bitter...
That's rich coming from a person using nefarious as their handle.
Jeeze, never been referred to as a beaver before. Interestingly enough, they're not one of my totem animals.
I feel strongly about this bit of climbing history and this forum is a place to voice our opinions. Duh? I know who my friends are on here and how they feel about this issue whether they're chiming in or not. Taking a shot at me and speculating about me is pointless, don't you think?
Have a nice lunch. Maybe you'll get into a better mood and have a nicer afternoon. ;]
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2006 - 03:02pm PT
|
Mimi was there and in the mix....
she knows more than you think. {{{{ insert evil laugh }}}}
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
|
|
There were plenty of people who were there and in the mix... However, little, to none, of what she's (presumably - you never know around here) said has been to offer anything other than sarcastic statements about people, and nothing about the issue being discussed. It's done nothing to contribute to this thread, at all. On a topic that is rapidly approaching 1000 threads, and thinking we'd left stupid sh#t like that behind, what 3 or 4 threads ago, it seems kinda pathetic and mundane to be doing it now.
I'm kinda thinking everyone wnats to get this resolved somehow, the sooner the better. If she truly has something to offer, that'd be great. She was there, so, OK, any sensible contribution is welcome.
Just offering my viewpoint.
Nice subtle insinutations there Russ. =) Did the "old boy club" of Yos include a female?
|
|
atchafalaya
Trad climber
California
|
|
quick questions...
is WOS now really a "worthy" route because PTPP met the FA team and top-roped two pitches?!?
Can those with opinions for or against WOS ever be taken seriously without having climbed the route?
Are these threads about the route WOS anymore, or is this just about bruised egos?
please resume...
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
"is WOS now really a "worthy" route because PTPP met the FA team and top-roped two pitches?!?
From what I just read both Pete and Ammon got on at least a couple of pitches (by whatever means) in the spirit of getting an independent view of just went on. Now you can attempt to minimize that all you want, but you simply reiterate exactly what Richard has been angry about all this time - that it very much appears there is nothing anyone can do or say that will stop the slander and lies. If you can't take Pete or Ammon's word on what they found how about simply getting on it yourself and reporting back here.
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2006 - 03:41pm PT
|
Nef writes: Nice subtle insinutations there Russ. =) Did the "old boy club" of Yos include a female?
Insinuations? None there. The "old boy club" has always included some females... if they had the grit and tenacity to get through the door.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I sure am hearing a lot out of what I'm thinking is PTPP's rack caddy. Forgive my refusal to read through all this again, but how do you fit in? Were you on this last failed PTPP mission? Were you around back then? Please advise. Just trying to keep all the players straight.
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
Fact:
There was a lot of misinformation about the route during and after its FA. People disagree as to the route’s appropriateness at the time it was put up (the line, the duration, the techniques used, etc.). The climb is hard.
The actions by the Valley Boy Perpetrators were wrong. You don’t sh#t on people’s gear. You don’t chop without first passing the offending bolt or rivet by ‘legitimate’ means.
Do we all agree so far?
Opinion:
It’s a crying shame that Richard and Mark were subjected to abuse.
What else is there?
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
|
|
"If you can't take Pete or Ammon's word on what they found how about simply getting on it yourself and reporting back here."
So, if that were the case, then you'd have to count at least mine and Tom's opinion's, as well. However, I've not done any of the routes with hard hooking that it seems to get compared with. Sea or Jolly Roger, etc...
But, at the very least, I can say I've been on the first 2 pitches. They are not a river or bolt ladder. The hook moves are sick. The danger for injury high and the falls sick. I think any pissing around or moaning, or whatever, about whether or not the route is legit, hard and proud, is well, just that. Pissing and moaning. As easily as it can be said for Mark and Richard to "get over it", it could *just* as easily be said for the detractors to "get over it". The difference is that the route is here to stay and being the FA team, Mark and RIchard's names will stay with it. I think that, rightly, they are proud of that fact. Eventually, any chestbeating, egos, opinions, etc. will be gone and forgotten. In the future, WoS sill be known as a badass A5 route, put up by Mark Smith and Richard Jensen. Plain and simple. The "controversy" will die with it's benefactors.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
Maybe if just one or two of the players that were around then would stop playing and just speak plainly this issue could have been settled in 100 posts instead of 10,000 and those of us interested in this bit of cultural history with a couple of cases of wine and beer riding on it would have lost interest long ago...
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
re: "I think any pissing around or moaning, or whatever, about whether or not the route is legit, hard and proud, is well, just that. Pissing and moaning"
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=231718#msg232854
re: " In the future, WoS sill be known as a badass A5 route, put up by Mark Smith and Richard Jensen. Plain and simple"
i thought A5 meant if the leader falls, the anchor will blow?
what's the worst anyone has been hurt on those 50' bolt protected whippers we keep hearing about? sounds like A(?
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
|
|
"Maybe I'm missing something, but I sure am hearing a lot out of what I'm thinking is PTPP's rack caddy. Forgive my refusal to read through all this again, but how do you fit in? Were you on this last failed PTPP mission? Were you around back then? Please advise. Just trying to keep all the players straight"
Wow! Now *I'm* the moving target! Right on!
Russ-- Well, I'd guess that the easiest way to figure this out would be to use some advice you, yourself, have given others. F*#king take a read, buddy. I guess you could start 2 posts below yours, which wasn't there when I started typing, dumbass... Regardless, of your self-uninformed "opinion" What I say seems to be making sense to quite a few though, eh?
I think this exactly demonstrates the kind of bullshit that got this whole thing going, in the first place. I really think who I am, what I have/haven't done, etc. really has no bearing here, nor the fact that I was *not* there during the FA. Again, read my post 2 below yours and maybe you'll understand why; I'll be here, when your ass is gone.
Who I am is, yes, a good friend of Pete's, as well as quite a few other people here, on this forum. Yes, I have carried Pete's rack to the base of climbs before. I'll gladly do the same in the future, regardless, of what as#@&%es like you might think. More importantly, I am Mark and Richard's friend and it kinda pisses me off that folks, such as yourself, have been spreading drivel and lies about them for quite some time. So, I guess that alone allows me to voice my opinion. Yet, even more importantly than that, is that I am a member of the community that has been cheated *while* you've done this. Wow! That kinda pisses me off too.
Since this is about character, and the community, etc. I really don't think anything else plays into it. I could give a f*#k that I've never climbed an A4 or an A5 route. Guess, what most of the people posting here haven't either.
And, I'd be real quick to remind that I'm, in no way, anywhere near the gentleman that Mark and Richard, and even Pete, are so I'd just kinda leave me off the target list. Not that I didn't expect it eventually. Welcome back to the f*#king sandbox!
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
|
|
yes, 2 pitches. Same as Ammon, same as Pete. Last I checked, the crux pitches of a route, kinda define the route.
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2006 - 04:09pm PT
|
wow... touchy? I'm not attacking you nor are you a moving target. Rack Caddy thing get ya? Guess you can' take a small prodding.
Call me what you want if it makes you feel better.. Seems like you are a bit over the side on all this to me. But what would I know. Maybe you need a nap.
Locker style edit: Just re-read your post again. Guess I know where you stand and thanks for the insults. Way to keep the dialog open and flowing.
Locker edit two: hey... quit adding to your post.... Yeah, I'm the demon that made all this happen. Maybe you should read up. I'm the guy that don't give a sh#t and was not involved. Ask your mentors.
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
Nef writes: "Yes, I have carried Pete's rack to the base of climbs before"
Russ thinks: "yep, that's what i thought"
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
|
|
Really has nothing to do with *what* was said. Probably moreso, about a direct attack being issued, at all. Maybe a bit to do with who it's from. Since I was, at least, the second troll you've done to shift the focus of the thread in the last 10 or so posts. I thought I'd get things back on track.
Regardless, I'll always be the person which will say right off, "I'm not the person to stand by and take sh#t from people." So, you wanna fire an insult attempt at me, I'll fire it right back. I think I stated that pretty succinctly, what you do from there is your business.
"Locker style edit: Just re-read your post again. Guess I know where you stand and thanks for the insults. Way to keep the dialog open and flowing."
I might say the same, as you leveled your weapon first, brutha! In light of that, you're quite welcome, to be sure! Again, I'm not polite enough that I'll take any of your sh#t. Sorry.
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2006 - 04:25pm PT
|
Ok tuffy.... I guess we are done.
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
|
|
Whatever guys. I bit. It's all good. I stated what I had to. If I spent my life thinking I had to spray on a forum about any climb I've done or really felt that it mattered to my peers and friends, I suppose I'd end up like you. Lucky me that I'm above that.
Still doesn't change the facts, though, deos it. So now that we're past that, hopefully the intelligent conversation about the issue can continue. Have fun.
Not sure about a nap, but I think a smoke and some lunch are in line.
|
|
atchafalaya
Trad climber
California
|
|
"hopefully the intelligent conversation about the issue can continue"
what issue? I am being serious and not joking when i ask that. WOS was climbed 20+ years ago. Until it gets repeated, theres nothing left to talk about, is there?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!