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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
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Slippery slope.....nah, were in the era of sticky rubber.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Nov 15, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
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Also, let's look at it this way...
A bunch of privileged, "exceptional" and special individuals aka
citizens of "first world countries" wants to engage in egotistical,
"adult child" lifestyle by engaging in various risky sports.
OMG, they owe to cover my MRI I was climbing without warmup!!!
I neglected my conditioning and I just have to be The First sending
this one!
hahaha...really, no one owed free care to anyone
Some people will always game the system. So what? Or perhaps to keep said solopsist climber from gaming the system we should keep everything just the way it is now, with the country spending 17% or more on health care to be sure that doctors, litigators, hospital corporations, insurance companies, and pharm companies make ever more, and all the while 40 million people remain uninsured.
Wake up.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Nov 15, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
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Excellent read. I would encourage everyone to go through it. I felt fairly informed and found some really good new info in there. I also like how it cuts through the hysterics of both sides arguments and talks about the possibilities of the issues.
Is ACA perfect? Of course not, but nothing really is when it is rolled out. How about we set aside our differences and give it a shot. Our healthcare system pre-ACA was perfectly suited to yield the results that we are getting right now. I don't think many, if any, would say our health system is working well right now, neither Demos or Repubs, considering the insurance companies are making out like bandits and leaving individuals and the government holding the bill.
I believe the ACA will work in the long run. It will take some fixes and tweaks, but it will work and this country will be better off for it.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Nov 15, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
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Well said Roughster,and yes that is a good level headed read.
Marlow ,thanks for pointing those stats out to these folks.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Nov 15, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
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Thank god Ron finally came over....
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 15, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
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The time I spent in Sweden showed me the virtues of universal health care...
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Ikke sant, Marlow?
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Nov 15, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
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What Republicans are talking about as "socialism" in the Northern part of Europe, is in reality what is giving people their freedom. And what Republicans are talking about as freedom in America is in reality "corporatism", i.e. freedom for the big corporations, and that's what's making the Americans of our time some of the clearest candidate slaves on earth...
I'll not argue about the virtues you found in Swedish health care, Reilly...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
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Spot on Marlow. America is burdened by unbridaled capitalisim, cultural isolation, religious extremisim and hubris. Despite that, having been to 55 countries, i wouldn't want to live anywhere else....you can separate the wheat from the chaff and there is more wheat here then anywhere else.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Nov 15, 2013 - 05:35pm PT
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I'm glad to hear Donini... as ST is demonstrating every day America is a more beautiful country than I had ever imagined and I have understood that money is not a big issue for you who are travelling to many fascinating out-posts on our globe... (out-posts as seen with my western-centric eyes)
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Nov 15, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
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Plus probably 90% of the posters freaking about socialism themselves receive "free" health care, have never spent any real time out of the U.S. and don't understand that there is little if any connection between economic performance and welfare expenditure (see, e.g., Germany, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, etc.).
We just have a gawd given right to the freedom to pay about two times as much for our health care than what other developed countries pay.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Nov 15, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
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Plus plus for TGT
Effing dirt bags dreaming of free healthcare. Only climbers could come up with this crap!
Lol free healthcare...
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Nov 15, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
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Mr. Dave, it's knott free. My tax bill says over 50% goes to
that um, protection?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Nov 15, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
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Ron ,respectfully,read Nortons link upthread.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
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Funny how people grumble about taxes and big government......but, my oh my, a calamity comes along (fire, hurricane, earthquake, flood) and conservative hamlets (Colorado Springs comes to mind) beg for all of the federal government help they can get.....help they didn't want fund.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Nov 15, 2013 - 07:41pm PT
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People have blasted insurance companies, and I believe, rightfully so. When I drive by their monolithic structures in big cities, my brain says, "Lynne, someones making big bucks here and it ain't going to the people paying the monthly premium."
But what about the "deep pockets"? When our first son was born, he was redeemed from the hospital for $750.00. How much does it cost to redeem your first born now? Let me guess.....@ $20,000.
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