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squishy
Mountain climber
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Nov 13, 2013 - 07:12pm PT
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After reading this thread I would like the details of this controversy, why would supertopo (chris) censor them from the climbing community?
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 13, 2013 - 08:53pm PT
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Vitality one other thing you missed. Not only did I ask Frieh to keep the info/photos on the "down low" but he also agreed he would do so, giving me his word that he would. "I have no problem keeping it on the down low" was the wording he used.
Is that thread still going on Cascade Climbers? I was banned, for calling out the local hero's, so I have no idea what's happening there.
After witnessing Frieh and Harro's attempt first hand, I was standing on the glacier watching, I can't believe these "prestigious" awards/grants were given to them. Probably should have used a different term then "punters" though. Maybe completely unskilled would have been better? Prior to viewing their attempt I had always thought these awards were granted to teams with at least basic mountaineering skills. I instantly knew why they never attempted the more serious West Face, the aspect the grants were awarded for.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 13, 2013 - 09:10pm PT
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Nice John Kelly
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cheamster
Trad climber
Vancouver
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Nov 13, 2013 - 09:27pm PT
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I see the tiger is showing off his stripes. Internet Diagnosis: mild Aspergers.
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Deekaid
climber
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Nov 14, 2013 - 09:10am PT
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squishy ...
again, the popular theory is private email address was posted
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Deekaid
climber
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Nov 14, 2013 - 09:30am PT
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neither did lying apparently
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Prod
Trad climber
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Nov 14, 2013 - 09:53am PT
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Just curious. How much money are we talking here?
Prod.
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steve shea
climber
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:17am PT
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Begging for a handout to climb or ski or whatever is the new norm. There are more "sponsored athletes" here in JH than there are employees in some of these companies. My old boss at Rossignol used to say that the Sales department made the money so that the Racing and Promotions Department could give it away. Heh heh.
Now as soon as you become proficient in a sport you deserve sponsorship or a grant. So get in line with everyone else and go palms up with your story. In order to gain an upper hand in staking a claim on the loot, beggars will in some cases use fuzzy math and other questionable tactics. A committee to oversee grants is open to conflicts of interest. You figure it out. As said up thread it all comes down to money. What happened to self sponsorship, a job? It used to be enough to just do the route. Now prodigious self promotion is needed to get the dough for the next go. The days of groveling for scraps in climbers camps around the world was the soul. Now go pro youtube and you are off.
Maybe I'm old enough to be curmudgeonly now.
Hey John how are your Rolwaling plans coming? I got an email from Wongchu Sherpa.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:19am PT
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The days of groveling for scraps in climbers camps around the world was the soul. so the beggars learned to go after the deeper pockets is all. it's not rocket surgery.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:24am PT
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Or brain science....
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steve shea
climber
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:36am PT
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No. There is a big difference in asking for money and equipment based on your self promotion, and getting your own sorry ass to and surviving in the squalor of Snell's Field or C4 or the Kahiltna. Maybe I'm missing something.
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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा
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Nov 14, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
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Maybe I'm missing something.
You're not narcissistic.
Some people think that is a good trait, especially some climbers and skiers.
If you're not bragging, you don't exist.
I would like to know what happens to the grant money if the climber bails.
Do they have to refund the AAC?
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10b4me
Ice climber
Bishop/Flagstaff
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Nov 14, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
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Back in 1982, some friends and I were going to attempt Denali. Unfortunately, a few months before departure, I lost my job. No funds= no Denali attempt. If only I had been famous.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 14, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
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And to think that the trip I went on with Rick Sylvester, Chuck Kroger, and
Carlos Buehler we were happy to get some packs from Lowe and some clothes
from Levis! LOL! What a bunch of loozers!
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Nov 14, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
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Do these climber grants put out why they selected who. It seems that a lot of them go to the same people over and over. Why is it in the interest of climbers to finance someone elses trips. Why don't they buy harnesses for underprivledged kids or or pay guides to take out beginners free of cost. Something that helps the masses more than just a select few.
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John Frieh
Ice climber
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Nov 14, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
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I suppose I shouldn't be surprised but it's disappointing to see how many individuals are comfortable drawing a conclusion off one side of the story.
It comes down to this: the American Alpine Club and Polartec did investigate Mr Kelley's claims in the spring of 2012 and looked at his emails as well as my emails. Everyone (minus Mr Kelley) concluded the only thing I did wrong was use his photo without securing written permission. All beta, logistics, timing, equipment was obtained from other sources including Ruedi Homberger, Charlie Sarrara, Carlos Buhler, Vince Anderson, and American Alpine Journals as proven by emails I shared.
Michael Kennedy concluded "As a writer and photographer whose own work has occasionally been misappropriated, I understand John Kelley's justifiable (if overblown) anger at the "unauthorized" use of his photo(s). As for his angst over everything else, my initial sympathy quickly gave way to a sense that this guy needs to get a life."
Get a life Mr Kelley
John Frieh
Portland, OR
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Nov 14, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
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Why did you use his photo?
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Nov 14, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
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Werner's dog say's take a cleansing breath every now and then while on Supertopo:
"cleansing breath" ?....or maybe it was muttering "clenching breath"...hmmm, "Mutt-ering" lol.
..........ps, my point is that is not my dog photo either. I got it off the net please don't hate me.
that's all I have.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Nov 14, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
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All beta, logistics, timing
Didn't read that way in the emails posted.
proven by emails I shared
Post them up for us again, maybe you and john have different email strings to offer.
You just copped to an unethical decision to use his photos. Now we are to believe you secured ALL other information in a honorable manner?
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Gagner
climber
Boulder
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Nov 14, 2013 - 02:27pm PT
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One of the AAC’s missions is to support ALL climbers, hence the various grant opportunities, from the Live Your Dream Grants that anyone at any level can apply for, to the cutting edge Lyman Spitzer grant, to the Cornerstone Conservation Grants.
As the volunteer chair of the AAC’s Lyman Spitzer Cutting Edge Climbing Award (NOT the Copp-Dash Inspire Award referenced here), we take into consideration many factors when selecting grant award winners. These include things like the objective, the party’s experience, integrity, and whether they have received other grants. We like to see pictures of the objectives, and don’t ask where the photos came from – I don’t know, maybe we should change that process. Many times though the photos come from the AAJ, or other sources. However, the point here is that we do not use photos without permission, so the only ones to see the photos referenced in this thread were the Copp-Dash committee members. The photos were not published elsewhere.
One last comment: The Lyman Spitzer committee is accepting 2014 grant applications up to December 1st. Information is on the website at - http://www.americanalpineclub.org/grants/g/7/Lyman-Spitzer-Cutting-Edge-Climbing-Award
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