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WBraun
climber
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Feb 28, 2014 - 11:11am PT
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The world elite bankers will try to sabotage the bitcoin for it's threat against their system ......
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Feb 28, 2014 - 11:17am PT
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HFCS - My interest doesn't lay in the usefulness and technology of the thing. At this point, I have no need for alternate currencies, as I run a pretty skim wallet on all fronts. I don't need to jump in just to be in.
But let me ask you a question. Supposing the "plug gets pulled" on the internet. I'm not interesting in discussing "that's highly unlikely." Just taken at face value - How would one access their Bitcoin/digital currency if they are unable to access the internet, any internet?
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Feb 28, 2014 - 11:23am PT
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Fools & their money are soon separated.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Feb 28, 2014 - 11:26am PT
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My interest doesn't lay in the usefulness and technology of the thing.
Okay.
Supposing the "plug gets pulled" on the internet.
Supposing the plug gets pulled on the space-time continuum...
Later.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 28, 2014 - 11:45am PT
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Happie, good find and in all honesty the IMF would be remiss on two counts
for not looking at the bitcoin's effects. The first is the obvious one of
what effect it might actually have on the world's currency. The second is
that no bureaucracy can let any opportunity to make a mountain out of a molehill
go unpunished, so to speak. In the article they did note that
"The threat posed by Bitcoin is, for the moment, only theoretical."
In view of the recent developments it may prove to be purely academic. In
the grand scheme of things, as I noted, the one hand clapping runs thusly:
there was recently $7 billion USD worth of bitcoins in circulation. That is
about 1/10,000th of the world's total currency, almost a rounding error.
And it turns out I wasn't far off yesterday when I compared it to the GDP
of Malawi. I just checked and we would have to also throw in the
Central African Republic.
I would also ask you if the bitcoin is valued in dollars, euros, and renminbis
then it has no intrinsic value of its own, does it?
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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Feb 28, 2014 - 12:27pm PT
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I would also ask you if the bitcoin is valued in dollars, euros, and renminbis
then it has no intrinsic value of its own, does it?
Do any of you think that dollars, euros and renminbis have any intrinsic value?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Feb 28, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
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Reilly - I think somewhere in that paper, the author provided numbers as to how the value of a Bitcoin could increase exponentially in some scenarios. I just glanced through and didn't locate, so possibly it was in another document I read(though I think not).
The document does detail how use of Bitcoin to make a speculative attack on a country's currency would work. again, I didn't read it in depth, but it is outlined in a way that seems to imply taking a "don't worry" attitude would be grossly negligent.
It doesn't take *that* much to destabilize a currency.
The paper also includes a suggestion that the IMF really needs to have a reserve of Bitcoin itself to counter such an attack, but...how to get that BTC?
How to, indeed.
They just have, but people can go on ahead and believe this recent brouhaha was just incompetence or criminality on the part of Karpeles.
(Edit: My feeling is that last year when the Dept. of Homeland Security raided Dwolla(a client of MTGox) and seized that almost 3M assets) they got their "in." It's likely that Kareles got touched in the dealings(of COURSE he did). He was probably given a choice to cooperate or take it the hard way.)
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Feb 28, 2014 - 01:47pm PT
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Do any of you think that dollars, euros and renminbis have any intrinsic value?
Yes, at least sort of--it's the nature of "fiat currency" where a government compels taxes to be paid in that government's currency.
You don't pay your taxes to the US government in US dollars -> you go to jail (not all the time, but that's the threat that makes us pay, at least in part).
The "intrinsic value" of dollars is based on the very-real power of the US government.
Not saying "fiat currency" that is merely backed by government power and not anything else is good thing -- that's complicated and I don't know much about it.
But I don't think it's true to say that the value of US dollars depends purely on "belief" or "trust" or anything quite so ephemeral.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 28, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
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Yes, blabla, but as previously noted it is more on faith than power. I trust
the US and European guvmints' monetary policies a LOT more than I do Mt Gox'.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Feb 28, 2014 - 01:56pm PT
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in this article(Feb 11 of this year)- http://bitcoin-betting-guide.com/james-cannings-blog/imf-managing-director-christine-lagarde-answers-bitcoin-question-on-abcs-qa/- Christine Lagarde(IMF Managing Director) answers a question about Bitcoin, saying the big problem really is that being unregulated, it is a big opportunity for money laundering(as everybody of course knows).
But what I found funny was how immediately after using that dirty word, "money laundering," she comes right out and says "avoiding paying taxes."
Does she care that Bitcoin can be used to finance human slavery, produce snuff porn, move drugs, run weapons.... No. But why should she. Ethics are not the concern of the IMF; keeping the financial players in their places is their job. The problem with Bitcoin, it seems from her standpoint, is that "bad guys" will no longer have to eventually clean the money through legitimate sources. It can stay dirty, dirty, dirty ad infinitum.
And that, is a problem.
edit: Reilly - Well, soon the government will be putting their stamp of approval on Bitcoin, so you'll be able to trust it too, if you want to.
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command error
Trad climber
Colorado
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Feb 28, 2014 - 02:36pm PT
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How opposite of funny would it be if the NSA ripped off MtGox?
Maybe the Japanese Keisatsu-chō (National Police Agency) should ask
our FBI to check out who over at NSA is suddenly buying diamonds,
gold, luxury cars and a change of address into swank upscale Virginia mansions all bought with unexplained bitcoins?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Feb 28, 2014 - 11:35pm PT
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Fools & their money are soon separated.
And after you lose it all, don't come here ask for a fundraiser "fest" to be put on for you.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Oh yes yes... i've been out of the loop for a bit. I see two transactions. thanks for the coffee! :)
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Another one got bit...seems like any dealers who didn't fix that code flaw are going to see their funds wiped out. Flexcoin goes down.http://www.flexcoin.com/
March 3rd:
On March 2nd 2014 Flexcoin was attacked and robbed of all coins in the hot wallet. The attacker made off with 896 BTC, dividing them into these two addresses:
1NDkevapt4SWYFEmquCDBSf7DLMTNVggdu
1QFcC5JitGwpFKqRDd9QNH3eGN56dCNgy6
As Flexcoin does not have the resources, assets, or otherwise to come back from this loss, we are closing our doors immediately.
And March 4th
During the investigation into stolen funds we have determined that the extent of the theft was enabled by a flaw within the front-end.
The attacker logged into the flexcoin front end from IP address 207.12.89.117 under a newly created username and deposited to address 1DSD3B3uS2wGZjZAwa2dqQ7M9v7Ajw2iLy
The coins were then left to sit until they had reached 6 confirmations.
The attacker then successfully exploited a flaw in the code which allows transfers between flexcoin users. By sending thousands of simultaneous requests, the attacker was able to "move" coins from one user account to another until the sending account was overdrawn, before balances were updated.
This was then repeated through multiple accounts, snowballing the amount, until the attacker withdrew the coins.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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HFCS, your love for Bitchcoin is touching but you never answered my question
from a while back as to why we need it other than to, as Happie pointed out,
avoid taxes and launder drug money, noble ends in themselves.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Reilly - I think I also mentioned that digital currency works in favor of A growing number of people are "bankless," and with the usury rates the financial institutions charge, if there's a better option, why WOULDN'T someone take advantage of that? The banks have been reaming us and plenty are sick of it.
Stahlbro - It is strange -very strange- that bankers are dropping like flies, in rather unfortunate circumstances. What is the number now - seven with the last 8 weeks or so?
But I suppose maybe it is a psychological thing....Remember when those high school girls began coming down with symptoms similar to Tourette's Syndrome? The official explanation was that they were "bringing it on themselves in a mass hysteria." as implausible as that may seem, they "were" girls after all.... I would love to see someone suggest in a public way that the bankers are killing themselves out of some compulsion after learning about the death of other bankers. I mean-really....If the cause is good enough to dismiss a dozen young women, it ought to do for bankers.
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Gene
climber
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Hey, Business Owner.
Let’s just say you borrowed 200 Bitcoins two years ago to buy some equipment for your business to increase revenue and profit. That loan allowed you to buy US $500 worth of stuff. You have faithfully made ever increasing interest payments in Bitcoins on the loan and the current loan balance is $120,000. Yikes!
Wait until all Bitcoins are mined – a fixed supply of the ‘currency.’ The economy is booming and you need to borrow operating/business expansion capital. Demand for Bitcoin is high and the price of a Bitcoin is rising cuz there ain’t no more of them out there to be mined. What do you think the interest rate would be with a fixed supply of currency in a growing economy? All your operating expenses are going up because your suppliers want to be paid in Bitcoin.
On Tuesday I order something from you. By next Monday, when UPS shows, up it’s ‘worth’ 20% more than I paid for it. But I can’t put it on eBay because by the time a buyer shows up, it’s worth 20% less than I paid for it.
Bitcoin is no different than tulip bulbs, Pokeman cards, the crap you bought from Zynga for your virtual farm, etc. It’s a commodity that’s worth only what someone will trade you for it in a fiat-currency.
g
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