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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Jul 24, 2006 - 03:27pm PT
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Karl - you're confusing difficulty with protection ratings. Misty was established in EBs and held it's 10d rating for 20+ years. Second pitch may be 11a. Considering that many Apron routes ( Clogdance, Perfect Master ect. ) were downrated with the advent of sticky rubber it would be odd to uprate this particular route. Green Dragon 11b if done in one pitch!
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Richard Large
climber
where you least expect
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Jul 24, 2006 - 03:38pm PT
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I rate myself a 5.11b human being. But I've often been told that I'm soft for the rating.
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junior
Trad climber
Modesto. CA
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Jul 24, 2006 - 04:41pm PT
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I think Generator crack is definatly the standard for 10c OW. Twilight Zone didn't really seam like OW because of all the foot holds on the right and your hip shoved into the left wall. I think the last pitch of Freestone has the purest 10c OW I have ever done. Nothing but off sized crack, straight in and no face holds to help.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 24, 2006 - 05:47pm PT
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how about the Valley 5.9 standards? and 5.8?
please advise
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 24, 2006 - 05:52pm PT
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Aldude said
"Karl - you're confusing difficulty with protection ratings. Misty was established in EBs and held it's 10d rating for 20+ years. Second pitch may be 11a. Considering that many Apron routes ( Clogdance, Perfect Master ect. ) were downrated with the advent of sticky rubber it would be odd to uprate this particular route. Green Dragon 11b if done in one pitch!"
Nope. It's subjective but I think Misty is harder..period. I've done both routes between a half and a dozen times and led Dragon in two pitches and one. I've done em both in EBs too. Let's go Aproneering sometime and compare em.
Perfect Master might be downrated to 11d and there are plenty of bolts too, but I'd like to see a handful of 12c gym climbers get on it and see how far they get.
Funny how ratings change the way we think of routes. Table of Contents pitch one got downrated from 11a to 10b. Seems easier now! Maybe it's the sticky rubber.
Peace
Karl
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jul 24, 2006 - 06:13pm PT
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"Twilight Zone didn't really seam like OW because of all the foot holds on the right and your hip shoved into the left wall"
you must not be short, because if you were, you'd know how agonizing all those entirely out of reach footholds really are! next time i will be sure to climb w/ my proesthetic right foot extension...
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Feb 13, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
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Required reading bump!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 13, 2013 - 10:57pm PT
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Lame thread unless you say 5.10 standards in Yosemite.
I know this is Super Topo but let me say loud and clear!
LADIES AND GENTLEMAN the climbing sun does not rise and fall on Yosemite Valley.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Feb 13, 2013 - 11:18pm PT
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2006...Waverly Wafer is 10c, not 10b?..wha...you mean this is a climbing forum? How did I wind up here?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 13, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
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Waverly Wafer is EVERY BIT of 5.10 c.....some downgrading here, for what purpose?
When i first posted on ST i said that it seemed Yosemite centric and someone rightfully responded....duh! I have more of a background in Yosemite than most who post here and i consider the Valley to be the place where i developed the skills that i have. Given that, the most annoying part of ST, for me, is the excessive reverence, awe, and worship of all things Yosemite.
There is a huge climbing world out there with fantastic diversity. America is famous for it's isolationist attitude....go explore.
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Michelle
Social climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
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Feb 13, 2013 - 11:34pm PT
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I couldn't agree more with that sentiment.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Feb 13, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
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I was being sarcasimistical there, Jim. The first time I did Waverly it was 10c, now it's 11a, it's NEVER been 10b, and either grade is right or wrong depending on blunt hangovers, sunspot activity, humidity levels, the thickness of our tinfoil hats...I was just amazed to see so many great CLIMBING threads getting bumped!
Although come to think of it, leading that thing with early generation GPIW nuts was...taxing.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Feb 13, 2013 - 11:50pm PT
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Donini, dammit, if loving Yosemite is wrong I don't want to be right.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 14, 2013 - 12:12am PT
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I love Yosemite and i like or love a lot of the climbing areas i've been to on seven continents. All in all it's the best "single" rock climbing venue on the planet. I'm just commenting on the excessive amount of forum presence it gets relative to the thousands and thousands of other climbing venues on the planet. It's (arguably) the single best climbing area but it's still only one of many. I just see the attitude on ST and America in general as too provincial.
I must love Yosemite, i developed my skills there, met lifelong partners in camp 4, pioneered some routes there in the 70's and i'm spending the month of May in the Valley this season.
I moved on from the Valley to far flung ranges in remote corners of the world and have immensly enjoyed discovering and experiencing the incredible diversity this planet offers.
Americans have a reputation (diservedly) for isloating themselves from the rest of the world.
American exceptionalism is a manifestation of that attitude.
edit: ST is too provincial on the national stage as well as the world stage....but it still beats the competition.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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Feb 14, 2013 - 12:58am PT
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I just see the attitude on ST and America in general as too provincial.
I see your's as too cosmopolitan.
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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
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Feb 14, 2013 - 10:32pm PT
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Leanie Meany 11b the first time you climb it for sure. Even the 10th time it is never 10d.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 14, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
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I'll take cosmopolitan over provincial any time.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Feb 14, 2013 - 11:33pm PT
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All of the face climbs you are naming are slabs. The ratings are all messed up.
When I went to the Apron we scampered up everything. It was all way overrated. JTree is a little more honest and has real face routes. Eldo is full of face routes that define grades.
Go to Colorado if you want good face ratings. Maxine's would be 5.9, Peruvian Flake would be done by children, and the Apron, although terrific fun, is hard to rate. Now I thought that the E Butt of Middle was actually pretty hard. Very solid 5.10. Green Dragon is certainly 5.11 in EB's.
Valley climbers should not be allowed to rate face climbs. Go to Boulder Canyon and do the starts of Athlete's Feat or Country Club Crack. You will go, WTF? Eldo is an incredible place to climb. One of my fave all time spots. We used to go there every year after it got too hot in the valley.
Rate cracks in Yosemite or Squamish, then rate face routes in Eldo.
That is all sub 5.12 stuff. I dunno about anything harder than 5.11.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Feb 14, 2013 - 11:47pm PT
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I did this as a seperate post. It is the reason for ratings creep.
If you climb 5.11 all day long, can you seriously tell the difference between 5.7 and 5.8? Those routes should be rated by 5.8 climbers.
It is that way all the way up. It is impossible to really rate a route that you either have dialed or that is several grades below your pump level.
There isn't a conspiracy. I remember my first 5.8 lead, and it was desperate. Five years later and it was the descent route on soloing binges.
To accurately rate routes, they have to be around your level of difficulty.
I was talking to a guy last year. He told me that he wasn't very good because he could only do 5.13. There are TONS of people that can do 5.14a now. Do you seriously think that they could accurately rate a 5.8?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 14, 2013 - 11:53pm PT
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You're right about that, but even then errors occur....high or low gravity day, sequence missed etc. I think that a climbs rating should be established by consensus. Reverence for the first ascensionist rating is misplaced.
edit: Why is it that people are so afraid to question ratings?
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