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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 12, 2006 - 07:57pm PT
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mungeclimber bearing down on "lemon chiffon" at mount woodson.
slab, or thin face?
we report, you decide.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Jul 12, 2006 - 08:01pm PT
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Bob, love that shot -- the doubled biners are true era style.
Jan, Vahalla was an entrance exam (and nirvana) of sorts.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 12, 2006 - 08:16pm PT
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(c)ABSOLUTE Slab
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jul 12, 2006 - 08:29pm PT
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bvb, help me out here bro... after reading this thread I'm really confused. what's a slab? what's a thin face? are they the same thing or are they different? how big do the holds need to be before they're no longer "thin"? is it still a slab if it's low angle and has big holds? hey, lemon chiffon has a thin crack on it - can it still be called a slab/face or should it be called something else? i've spent years doing this kind of climbing and now i have no idea what it is that i did or what i am doing (ok, so that's not really new, but you get the point). i'm so lost... can ya help?
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jul 12, 2006 - 08:36pm PT
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Yeah, good Valhalla picture, bvb. Hey... there's a cam on the rack (note the era gear sling also). Is Valhalla a crack climb?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 12, 2006 - 08:49pm PT
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dammitt darryl, now you've got me confused. hey, i got an idea...let's start a slab vs. thin face thread over on rockclimbing.com! i'm sure the crag intelligentsia over there can sort this all out for us!
"Hey... there's a cam on the rack"
fall '78, alan nelson brought that thing from jardine for $18 bucks...he was soooo proud of it, we even took it on climbs that had no cracks....DOHT!
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Jul 12, 2006 - 08:55pm PT
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henny wrote: bvb, help me out here bro... after reading this thread I'm really confused. what's a slab? what's a thin face?
I'am the other Bob.
BVB last picture is a steep face...not a slab.
BVB..this is a SLAB boulder.
All sport wankers think anything under 90 degrees is a slab. LOL
BVB..how is that wonderful family of your??
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rmuir
Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Jul 12, 2006 - 09:22pm PT
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Darrell said: "bvb, help me out here bro... after reading this thread I'm really confused. what's a slab? what's a thin face? are they the same thing or are they different? how big do the holds need to be before they're no longer "thin"? is it still a slab if it's low angle and has big holds?"
Classic Valhalla shots, gents. The Dress Whites are especially nice, Jan! (Who's your tailor?)
And, I'm guessing the Friend on the BVB rack was used as self-defense to fight-off the Woodson groupies waiting for them at the sumwhat...
and bob d'antonio said; "BVB last picture is a steep face...not a slab."
Slabs. Thin-face. It's all how you look at it... (Right?) Tip your head, Bob. Without the tilt-foolery, that BVB shot looks pretty slabby/facey to me...
To wit:
You be the judge...
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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Jul 12, 2006 - 09:27pm PT
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Great photo's...however a number of those "slab" climbs, look to be face climbs to me.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2006 - 09:42pm PT
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Thanks for the discussion and pictures, especially the great ones from Valhalla! That route is so hallowed, and so often mentioned in ST land (Stonemaster Stories...), that it was nice to see pictures of it.
Discussion of what exactly and precisely is and isn't a slab climb may be better saved for one of the many religious discussion threads. All I can say is that I know one when I see one. Though I'll certainly admit that distinguishing between slab climbing/friction and crimping is sometimes like counting angels on pin heads. Or teaching a pig to dance - may only waste your time and annoy the pig. There's not many slab climbs where you don't do a bit of crimping - and darn few crimpy face climbs where friction isn't important.
Anders
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jul 12, 2006 - 10:00pm PT
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I thought that slab meant not more than 5 bolts per full pitch and often only 2 or 3 bolts per pitch. The optimum at 4 per pitch. the ropes were shorter then so a pitch was 150 or 165ft. I only climb 5.9 friction so it probobly is a bit diferent for the grades you guys are doing. We have a great slab bak east. 700ft of granit coming ringht out of Lake George. awsom canoe paddle of about a mile to the cliff and climbing right off the water. That lake suer does feel good after getting your feet fried off on that black granit..... How do you post a photo?? thanks
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rmuir
Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Jul 12, 2006 - 10:02pm PT
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Yeah, Henny and I were just talking on the phone... And we both agree that we haven't a clue about where slabbing stops and facing begins. Maybe there isn't clear a demarkation point. (Must consult with our spiritual advisor.)
To my mind, Valhalla ain't no slab. Never was. It's too steep; too crimpy at the cruxes. And certainly, if it's less that vertical that doesn't automatically qualify it as a slab! "Someone You're Not" and "Calienté" are less that vertical, and NO ONE has EVER called them slabs!
How 'bout this... If the photo shows a climber with taped knuckles and fingers, then by definition the route can't be a slab.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jul 12, 2006 - 10:27pm PT
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Robs, I don't think KP gets off work until tomorrow. So we'll need to wait till then to talk to our "spirtual advisor". He should be able to set us straight.
Semantics, semantics. Maybe "Someone You're Not" and "Caliente" which are less than vertical are "steep slabs"?
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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Jul 12, 2006 - 10:31pm PT
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The first time I got to thinking about this, was when someone referred to "Loose Lady," in Josh. as a slab climb.
In my opinion, if you are putting your fingers over edges and your shoes are not smearing...it is certainly not a slab climb.
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rmuir
Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Jul 12, 2006 - 11:16pm PT
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Henny said: "...we'll need to wait till then to talk to our 'spirtual advisor'"
Bwah, hah, hah! Maybe YOUR spiritual advisor... That new testament moaner is in serious need of a guru, himself! :-)
Now, a truly Old Testament slab god worthy of veneration was Larry "Lawrence of Monrovia" Reynolds... That guy, with significant bulk, could really use that weight to good effect on padding slabs! ...could really get those Kronies to stick on to those divots.
We should get KP to organize a seance. (He's good at organizing parties.) If we can't contact Larry, maybe Kevin can channel Couch, Dent or Powell, and coax some real spiritual guidance from beyond the Great Lieback That Lasts.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 13, 2006 - 12:00am PT
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"Robs, I don't think KP gets off work until tomorrow. So we'll need to wait till then to talk to our "spirtual advisor". He should be able to set us straight"
goddammitt henny, we can't wait that long! call dispatch or raise him on the satellite phone! we need to know NOW!!111! i'll be tossin' and turnin' all night waiting for the oracle to speak!!!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 13, 2006 - 12:22am PT
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of course there is no resolution...
if you are in a corner and stemming, using mostly friction, is that slab?
if you are in a chimney and your counter pressuring off of friction, is that slab? (Bruce said it's really slab...)
it is really meaningless, we use slab technique in lots of places that are not slab, and similarly we use face technique in lots of places that aren't considered face.
The bit of Hoodwink above the roof was interesting for me, mostly I used slab technique but it was pretty vertical next to the bolt ladder, a soft corner so counter pressure worked. I smeared and fricitioned and palmed like a demon, and got up it pretty nicely, to the facey stuff above the last bolt, lower angle ground.
We know slab when we see it, even if we use face technique to get up it...
The Apron, slab; Royal Arches apron, slab... don't matter how.
Anyway, that's my take.
The pictures make me want to go out climbing now, have to wait for the weekend...
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estwing
Trad climber
montreal
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Jul 13, 2006 - 12:37am PT
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This thread has got to be one of the best in recent history.
That said I have to ask what allows some people to seemingly stand on nothing, then move to the next spot of nothing, while I am stuck on seemingly blank 5.10 slab sections. The other guys don't appear to be doing anything visibly different, yet they are moving up, not down. What is the secret?
Definetly agree about the quality of routes on the apron in squamish, my summer there was great, wish I had been able to climb even more!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2006 - 12:49am PT
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Can I have my gold star now, please? The one that ST gives to everyone who initiates a climbing-related thread with more than 100 posts? Only four of which are mine, including the first.
Anders
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jul 13, 2006 - 12:50am PT
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The Weeping Wall stuff and Rebolting Development are slabs. Same with the most of the really hard stuff at Rubidoux.
To take an extreme example, To Bolt or Not To Be at Smith is thin face. 120' of dead vertical. Not all dime edges, but not much bigger than a door jamb.
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