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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jul 24, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
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Eric...I come to the conclusion that you really don't know what you are talking about and really do not understand what retro-bolting mean/is.
Posting maps does nothing to prove your point or the claims you made.
Post the hundreds of routes that have been "retro-bolted" in Boulder Canyon.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Jul 24, 2013 - 06:17pm PT
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Bob how about all the routes listed in the section under Sport Park?
You're the guidebook author, show us your sources of FA's?
Do you have the big book from Neptune's to post up your references of FA's?
I don't have access to that info but as a guidebook author you should stop arguing with me and post your references. Something which is severely lacking in your guidebook index.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jul 24, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
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Kurt...Ok...accept my apology on that.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Jul 24, 2013 - 06:33pm PT
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Im not name calling or bashing Chris for what he did, just asking the questions, why and what good does it do to bring the route/sport down to your level when climbing used to be about stepping up to the level of the route you desire to climb.
kurt
Kurt,
This is a funny statement from you considering you glued and bolted a hold on a line you could not climb in Clear Creek canyon in the late 80's or early 90's? I believe this line has been climbed without the "necessary" hold.
Has you evolved to a higher level? Should everyone else have to follow your lead?
All the questions you ask are great ones and necessary ones in my book. But don't take a higher stance based on "Back in the day" ethics, when you didn't follow those ethics back in the day.
Cheers,
Prod.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jul 24, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
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Eric...I have nothing to prove to you...you made a dumb ass statement for which you have not been able to back up with proof.
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
Hankster's crew
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Jul 24, 2013 - 06:38pm PT
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Post the hundreds of routes that have been "retro-bolted" in Boulder Canyon.
Gawd, where to start.....hey here's one!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jul 24, 2013 - 06:40pm PT
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Frank...nice try..."I climbed right of Bob's line after the third bolt, staying in the obvious corners. In my opinion, this is more fun and logical climbing than the way it is bolted, and since you need to carry gear for this route anyway, give it a try and see what you think. At the top, I traversed left just below the second-to-last bolt, which is a tad easier than the bolted finish.
I also offered to take the first three bolts out.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Jul 24, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
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No bolting Bob, as a guidebook author you're the one talking out of your ass, knot proving first ascents.
Bob as a guidebook author who considers themselves an authority of Boulder Canyon who were the FA'S of the crags west of Castle Rock?
Step up or Step off.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jul 24, 2013 - 06:46pm PT
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Eric wrote: No bolting Bob, as a guidebook author you're the one talking out of your ass, knot proving first ascents.
Talk to me when you see me in the canyon sometime. Until then post the 100's of retro-bolted routes in the canyon.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jul 24, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
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Fixed it Locker...Thanks.
Glad you are having fun...:-)
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Jul 24, 2013 - 06:54pm PT
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I've asked you a dozens time you dumb guido.
Name the FA's of everything west of Castle Rock.
There are at least 200 routes in the immediate vicinity.
I'm going out to a wedding the rest of the night check in tomorrow knuckledraggers.
hugs and kisses!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jul 24, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
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Eric wrote: I've asked you a dozens time you dumb guido.
Dude...your name calling, stupid posts and ethnic slurs are doing nothing for your cause. You are a poser and nothing more.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 24, 2013 - 08:00pm PT
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I'm sure the hamster wouldn't see it
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Jul 24, 2013 - 08:07pm PT
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One of the late Craig Lubben's routes in Colorado, Dags in Beanland on Cedar Park Slab, had about eight protection bolts added and a set of fixed rappel anchors installed. This route was established in 1988 or so and has seen hundreds of ascents (and descents off it for that matter) and is only rated 5.8.
But, someone for some reason found it necessary to add bolts to the first, third and fourth pitches(5.6-5.7 climbing) and also add bolts to create a rappel route, one of the anchors next to a perfectly good tree. BTW, the walkoff is no big deal if you know what you are doing.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Jul 24, 2013 - 09:41pm PT
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Colorodo sounds rough! Don't y'all got legal marywanna?
You'd think ppl would be more chill.
Like Locker.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 24, 2013 - 10:05pm PT
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The MP entry reads as if the retro-bolter is proud that he didn't attempt to find out the history of the route.
News Flash: Not everybody is happy to hear about established routes getting a hard-handed makeover. True, from my arm-chair, I know little of the thing except what was written on MP.
But I do know this: the route had two bolts and a possibility for more pro with modern gear, why not keep it a mixed climb (bolts & gear) and keep some of the historical thrill with the route?
I don't care if the guy is the King of New Routing; here it's obviously done in bad taste and he deserves all the chaff he's getting.
How about this, from the same report on MP:
I suggest linking P1 & 2, if you are comfortable pulling 5.11a moves above a small ledge.
P1. climb short 5.9 to a small ramp with 2-bolt anchor.
P2. Follow bolts past dihedral, get over the ceiling and continue underclinging to chains.
Does anybody understand wtf this guy means by his caution about linking the two pitches?
I mean, P1 is 5.9 (no 5.11) and P2 is .12c, so what's with the caution about .11a?
I know I don't understand, but from here this dude doesn't gain a lot of respect with the way he struts his stuff.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Jul 24, 2013 - 10:19pm PT
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Talk to to FA party;.....talk to the FA party if you wish to retro bolt...and what they say ...that is word....
(This is gonna be a tough one in the up-coming years when many FA members are deceased from old age or accidents...)....It will be an issue the climbing community will have to deal with..............(Respect for Bob D'A and Kurt Smith for what they have given to the climbing community......big respect....)...
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 24, 2013 - 10:36pm PT
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so kurt, do you know the fa?
i'm less scandalized by the new bolts than by the public claim that the fa'ist was a liar and never actually freed the thing. if that's true, then it's a different ball game. don't know the climb outside of the pix-- seems like one of those one-in a-jillion short deals folks did back in the 80s. un-protectable crack system?
if the fa'ist actually did this thing, the re-bolting seems pretty f*#ked. if not, i'm happy to let the locals sort it out.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jul 24, 2013 - 10:36pm PT
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Just lame as hell and CO climbers need to call Chris out on this. It's one thing to beef up existing bolts but to add bolts to turn it into a sport climb is just lame, whether it is 5.4 or 5.15.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 24, 2013 - 11:24pm PT
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I am telling you people you are making very foolish assumptions that the line that was recently bolted was ever led free.
Consider that it is right next to a famous 5.13 (China Doll) that is a visually striking line and which has received extensive coverage as it was first done as a bolted sport climb but subsequently led on gear (by very good and bold climbers, obviously).
Tell me, why did none of the China Doll climbers (bolted or gear) ever lead this obvious line right next to it, which by all accounts is a 4-star classic?
And there is no mention of this "Thom Byrne" as establishing any route other than allegedly Archangel--is it reasonable to think that the only route this guy (who no one seems to ever have heard of) ever established is a long, sustained, 4-star, 5.12 X?
I am very familiar with Rossiter's guidebooks and many routes that he established, most of which I like. But if you are taking this alleged FA just from his guidebook (and I haven't seen any reference to any other source), prepare to eat some crow if and when the truth is revealed.
Let me make it clear that I am not calling "Thom Byrne" a liar, I am more doubting his existence or any claim by him that he ever freed the same line that was recently bolted. The whole thing was probably just a Rossiter flight of fancy.
If Mr. Byrne shows up and plausibly claims to have freed it (and if he was anything like a good enough climber to make that a plausible claim), I will gladly make the $100 donation to his favorite 501(c)(3) or charity recipient. (With one exception--Rossiter's guide shows at least one piton; if it was done with pitons that were replaced with bolts, that seems like a public service that no one would complain about.)
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