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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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For the record I think Penn Burris' letter was spot on.
My spidey senses tell me that some disgruntled "local" had other plans for said property and has been rabidly twisting peoples lycra till they prance.
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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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cute smowass mount some more hard rock watch out for nails in your rocks and tires
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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LOL pitbull. Eldo vigilante!
At least we know what bike belongs to you
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Pitbull, I am sorry to see this thread degenerate into an unproductive squabble.
For you to say that philo would not be welcome in Eldo after dark is highly presumptuous on your part. You might actually like him not to be there in the daytime also.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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^^^ LOL, that might be why he likes things like the road the way they are.
And LOL out loud Toker Villian.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Shame on you.
L. Penn Burris
Hey L. Penn, shaming the folks that you need to work with doesn't seem like a very constructive attitude.
As a homeowner in the city of Boulder, I can empathize with the homeowners in Eldo Springs. The cost of property is very high out there, and those folks paid it to get a certain way of life . . a way of life that will likely not be supported by an AAC Eldorado Climbers' hostel. The comparison to the Teton Climbers' Ranch is a poor one, as it is located in a national park where the feds have appropriately limited development, with the consequence that there is a lot of open space that surrounds the Climbers' Ranch. There is no permanent neighborhood adjacent to the Teton Climbers' Ranch, as there would be to the proposed AAC Eldo hostel. If the AAC tried to come in and make one of the houses adjacent to mine in the city a climbers' hostel, I would vehemently object. If you want to call that a NIMBY attitude, so be it.
Viewing Eldo Springs from Google may be misleading as to the available space and the lay of the land. It is in fact a crowded little town that sees a lot of traffic because of the Park and the pool. Also, redeveloping the post office may involve issues around the risk of flood, which will complicate the whole process.
I cannot imagine that this is the best option for the AAC if they really are determined to create a climbers' hostel close to Eldo. The Eldorado Springs road on the way to the canyon has much more in terms of available space to locate such a development without treading on the rights of the locals. While I support the general goal in this case of the AAC, with such strong objections on the part of the locals, it will be doomed to failure.
Brad White
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Eldo is not populated by elitists. That title is reserved for some/many in Boulder.
I would go more with the term "idealists" for some of the Eldo residents.
Would it not be great if the pool and most of the visitors to the state park went away? Sure it would for the few that live there. Property values would skyrocket and the Boulder elitists would move in and erect giant eco friendly structures.
Vegan ( disabled ) shelter pets could roam freely without the threat of being run over by the hoards of inconsiderate visitors. Also, my kids Chrysanthemum and Divya can run freely and not be in fear of Philo.
#Merica
#trollinforaprancer
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Reading the complete article in the Boulder Weekly, and Phil Power's very thoughtful comments, I am wondering why the AAC would invest in the property, knowing full well that the hostel might never occur, due to the multiple obstacles that may keep it from happening. I mention the risk of flood not from the perspective of the neighbors, but rather from the perspective of the AAC investing in a very expensive piece of property.
If they truly are buying the property for a climbers' hostel, isn't that a very risky investment for a small non-profit??
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Eldo homeowners: pass some zoning laws, people.
AAC: mandatory editor for Penn!
The idea that it's the AAC being "elitist" here is absurd. How is trying to provide low-cost accomodations for climbers of little means "elitist"? I would place this one in the scrap pile under the no-good-deed-goes-unpunished file. And, do better homework next time.
David Stevenson
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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I am wondering why the AAC would invest in the property, knowing full well that the hostel might never occur They obviously don't know anything. It's just under contract while they talk to people.
IMO, the best option would have been to STFU about it until they had a working plan for the more basic and obvious concerns - like parking and how to legally cram 20 people into a tiny cinderblock rathole - maybe even how to pay for it. I think if they had done this, fewer people would be freaking out.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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I have seen a lot come and go through Eldo over the decades. The State Park status has brought many changes and enhancements to the canyon experience. This has helped considerably reduce human impact on a sensitive resource and though many "locals" at first complained that it altered the essence of Eldo it has for the most part been for the greater good.
Phil, there are two different parts to your post. One is the canyon experience, and I agree with the fact that it has been well managed. The locals aren't concerned about the canyon experience. They are concerned about how the climbers' hostel would impact their little town.
I respectfully challenge you :-) to name any relatively recent changes and/or enhancements that the State Park has made within the Park that has benefitted Eldorado Springs.
Steve, I don't know that you can compare the changes made to the Jackson Airport over the years, that has been at that location since the 40's (as you note) , to the addition of a (not-previously-exisiting) climbers' hostel to Eldorado Springs. Your post seems to be based on the fact that the Jackson Airport was previously existing, and I don't get your point. Also, the scale of tourism in Jackson makes it a poor comparison to sleepy little Eldo Springs.
Brad White
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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They should have just turned the place into a quarry...
... those darned climbers are always stirring up trouble!
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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I think this is a great idea by the AAC. Eldorado Canyon does not belong to the homeowners there, just like Yosemite or Red Rocks Canyon are public not private property. To have lodging for traveling climbers is a great idea, and of course you will always have the naysayers who are looking to discourage any visitors to their little corner, and will come up with any number of reasons why we all should stay away.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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I can say this, and policy and grassroots organizing are my area of work, that if someone in my organization broke ranks and message like Burris, they would be gone before the day was over. Period.
totally agree with you. why is the aac keepin the dude?
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steve shea
climber
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No. Brad calm down. Eldo and the attendant attractions it offers prexisted the current residential concerns. As Phil points out it has been historically a tourist area. My first ever rock climb was on the west side of the Bastille in 1967. We hung out there a lot during my DU days. I lived in Boulder for a while after school and I can tell you by any definition it is an attraction. You can classify tourist by local or not but most of the people visiting do not live in Eldo.
I was a NIMBY. Then I came to my senses and realized I do not live in a pristine area. When I accepted change I got used to it pretty quickly. My story would make you weep. I lost money and privacy. But humans are pretty adaptible. you'll get used to it. BTW my note on Climber's Ranch was never meant to be a comparison. Only that they run a very good operation. There may be better locations for the AAC, I do not know I have'nt been in Boulder in years. Eldo, the village of, was like living in a sardine can then. 20 climbers a night for a few months a year can't add too much pressure.
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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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the town of eldorado springs is ALL private property except the post office which all residents are current tenants we pay for our po boxes and 2 other locals have businesses there. One of them is a climber who makes climbing clothes made in usa! Please support local business and community. The state park and eldorado springs are not the same place .he town is mainly private property. How boring to have to be quiet after 10:00 when on vacation. Wouldn't you rather support the local restaurants and bars in Boulder? Not tomention the music scene has a lot to offer. A cab from Eldo to town is over 20 bucks. The cops patrol the road from South Broadway to CU all the time for dui's.
So the town is not public property at all and residents have enough tourists getting lost and trying to find their way back to the park. We pay over 200 dollars a quarter per person to operate the sewer. The AAC strolls in as a non-profit getting many tax write offs for being a non-profit while we all pay a lot of taxes and there is not even a school bus sign or slow down before dirt road.
Have you ever known a pedestrian to be killed by a car? I lost a friend this winter killed by a car only going 25, she died right in front of her husband on the road of massive internal bleeding. To make fun of pedestrian safety is appalling. DO you know the cops and fire dept were looking for Jessica Ridgeway last fall in Eldo okay parents think about it!
Do you know there was a hit and run by the South Mesa trailhead last spring and the driver never found. Do you know the cops are always sitting at the trailheads because of thieves breaking into cars while hiking. Do you know a woman was sexually assaulted by gunpoint on Highway 93 less than a mile from Eldorado Corner Market while waiting for help from a broken down car.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Perhaps some would gain perspective if we look beyond our national boundaries to say, the alps of europe where accommodations are quite common for hikers and climbers along their way. Just last week here on Supertopo, we had the announcement, by the owners no less, of a climbers boarding house near Fontainebleau, right in the nearby village, La Chapelle La Reine.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2167099&msg=2167177#msg2167177
Mixed use planning is usually a good thing and has been a standard throughout the rest of the world. The confluence of a variety of human activity is usually productive and colorful. The alternatives of bedroom communities with no other amenities but beds and yards, have long since been found out to be wasteful and, frankly, disparaging especially for youth.
But then again, no good deed goes unpunished.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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i wasn't much following this.
but the articles and the many, many posts from residents opposed to the hostel have helped me come to support it. most of the opposition here comes off as pretty un-attractive nimbyism. you bought houses in an old frickin resort town on the edge of a state park that is one of the big destinations for tourists, hikers and climbers in an area with explosive population growth (to which you've all contributed). now you're shocked and unhappy that tourists, hikers and climbers are coming to the area and now a couple dozen of them may be there at night in season.
i'm guessing that pitbull and co may help to really generate more support for the aac.
go phil. i hope this works out. it's a frickin scandal that one of the most historic and important climbing destinations in north america has no base for visiting climbers. practically every tiny, picturesque village in any destination valley in the alps has b&b or hostels or huts. and no offense to eldo residents, but i don't see the culture of say, selva, as failing to live up to your standards.
i guess cg isn't going to friend me on fb now.
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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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why are you so pro development? why do want to stay and pay for a place where you are not welcome? do you think climbing is the only redeemable quality to Eldorado Springs? climbing is not the only use of this area.
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