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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Sure it's complicated. The important things always are. Some thoughts though..If you come to a climbing site like ST or a thread about an accident you know what you might see. If you look in on a thread about war..same thing. If you go to a porn site same thing or if you go to stephensons gear site.. lol
It's also part of our responsibility as people to try to understand the lives of people around us.
Basically take time to understand that things have a time and place and when and where those are. Sure errors can be made and corrected.. no big deal. but it helps if folks dont just obliviously and without any thought post up things bound to hurt others. I know it's hard to understand how hurtful images of nudity can be for those who have experienced abuse. Also it is really hard to fathom how common that experience is. I still find myself boggled by all of it but sadly i know how real it is for so many.
We can handle these things with a bit of consideration and class if we wish not to truly harm people.
Not talking about banter and flames and lighthearted rudeness but understanding that all that can cross a pretty vague line and simply trying to take a moment and consider where a line might be.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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a wise man is known by the smart things he doesn't say
good manners evolved to help communities hold together
a long climbing career seems to inspire a certain depth of wisdom
from the limits of my perspective, this is the best collection of interesting posters on the internet
however climbing also attracts some people who can't seem to get their head out of their poop tube
these few crudely drive away or limit the interest of many in our community who would be wonderful participants
a sad loss to us all
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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from the limits of my perspective, this is the best collection of interesting posters on the internet
Tom, thanks for saying that, I feel the same way, lots of really cool and great people here
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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You'd think from some of the responses that pornography is so hard to obtain and climbers are so desperately starved for it that its presence on a site devoted to climbing is some kind of necessity.
Someone says you are welcome at their house, but asks that you please remove your shoes while inside. So a guest keeps their shoes on, tromps through all the rooms, and invites a host of others to do the same.
No one ought to be even remotely surprised if the tromper is no longer invited, but for some reason, not only do some folks manage to express surprise and even outrage, but someone else, with full knowledge of the situation, does the same thing, and slowly but surely the original trompers do it all over again. Every single one of them knew about their host's request at that point.
So now the host puts a note on the door about not wearing shoes inside.
Then what? Folks walk in with slippers, "Are these shoes?" or sandals, "Are these shoes?" Then come denunciations of American society as too uptight to tolerate shoes indoors, and observations about the deleterious effects of the judeo-christian shoe ethic. These entirely personal perspectives on location-appropriate shoddiness are advanced as if they should override the host's request for appropriate behavior in his own house.
The shoe analogy is weak in one respect: most people already have their shoes on when they arrive at someone's house, and might innocently forget to take them off. But those who are driven by a need to (re)post pornographic images have to put in some effort to search the sites and copy the links. It is an active intrusion, not a passive one, and so violates the host's requests in a much more confrontational way.
In many ways, it is analogous to bringing a boom box to the crags and playing it full volume, under the presupposition that everyone shares your taste in music and wants to hear it at full volume whenever the urge for musical inspiration strikes you. Folks who like the subtle and transient sound of the outdoors and are there at least partially for that purpose are uptight politically-correct whiners who can't appreciate the natural beauty of sonic-boom-level waveforms.
Chris Mac has made the rules explicit and even explained them, which with this crowd is probably a mistake. Sensible as they are, it doesn't matter why he has the rules he has. It doesn't matter how consistent he is in enforcing them either. It's his "home" and the rest of us are guests here---take it or leave it.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Tom, thanks for saying that, I feel the same way, lots of really cool and great people here
Hear, hear!
John
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Obvious to all, I’m sure: but there is the nude and there is the crude, and there is discussion and there is misogyny. Erecting policy fences between them will not work to satisfaction of all, here or anywhere on the net. The only checks in cyberspace gab come from the interplay of the posting parties, the clash of ideas, principals and preferences (whether about language, tone, climbing styles, politics, or all else on supertopo). Those offended in such discussions should not hesitate to speak up when offended. Their voices are important and need to be heard. None should keep quiet or storm off on important subjects. So bravo to the concerned voices on this thread. Some will listen, some will laugh, some will bite. All voices should keep coming.
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
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Go to Tumblr if you want to look at porn.
Come to the Taco if you want to get trolled, scolded, harassed, or told You Are Going to Die!
Thanks for clearing the air a little CMac......
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portent
Social climber
your mom's house
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Ahhh... What would we do without the drama?
-kovar
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Squirrell
Boulder climber
N. Cali under the bridge
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My daughter was online last week at school. They were allowed to be online searching for photographs that went along with a fiction writing project they were working on. She is in a few pictures here from Chris' books and apparently being 12 now and very internet savvy, she decided to come here and look up a few pic real quick for her project. (I'm sure kind of showing off to her friends too might have been involved...;) and she was a tinsy bit surprised, to say the least. I got the full shock report when I picked her up from school. She has mentioned it twice since too.
You all may not know this, but there are LOTS of lurkers out here. Myself included.
It's all fun and games until someone gets poked in the eye! lol...
I personally, don't mind myself but she is just now coming into an age where it is becoming better to appreciate one's individuality instead of "just being like everyone else" and she is just now starting to appreciate just how "cool" her Mom's side of the family is. Something that she perhaps has been questioning for a few years now because we are so "different" so to speak than her Father's family and most of the other families her friends have.
We climb on rocks. It's very important to us. We drove around like madmen taking guide book pics & such. We never stop loving it and our psych never decreases. I guess she is realizing that this rock climbing stuff is never going to go away or drift out of our lives, maybe ever.
She's been crushing it lately at the gym and getting more and more motivated about how much time she spends there. The gym, I know, but at least she is wanting to move forward and not deciding that it is not for her. (Thank goodness!)
I hope to post some trip reports here too someday soon because things are getting easier to "family crush" so to speak...
But ~
When she decides to come on here again and snoop around to see what else this Super Topo rock climbing stuff that Mom & Chris are into ~ is all about, I hope she won't be appalled again. Thanks ST forum.
BTW ~ mad props too. I do like snooping around on the forum. Mostly everything rocks and you guys are always on top of the latest stuff. I appreciate that.
Thanks.
Valentine Cullen
I usually keep quiet until it comes to protecting my daughter. That's when I speak up. I'm sure you all understand!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Mmmmmm....
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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We have combat vets posting here, and yet people have, and do, post images of limbless corpses and other graphic war images, images that could have exactly the same effect.
Could you link to any of those posted images, please? As far as I've seen, graphic gore photos have been summarily deleted by admin rather quickly, whereas Anastasia's Boob Thread went to well over 600 posts for weeks before it was nuked (and had many, many fully nude shots).
Just thought I'd offer some perspective...
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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hear hear! Good work Chris.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Black Rock City
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^^^ yeah, do tell. The blood I remember seeing here is from gobies and missing teeth. Climbing injuries.
I am glad to hear about this policy. It makes for a better site for many of us.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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"shoddiness" and "naughdiness"
either one or the other, no room for the subjective
this is not an art gallery, it is a dicussion forum
Tom C. is dead on on this sissy issue
real men and ladies talk about SAFETY*
*as in "I propose a safety meeting on this."
Subject:
Is this nude, or is it mocking the dead, or is it simply art for art's sake?
Save you the trouble, see Herr Freud's remark about cigars and reality.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Lovegasoline makes some very valid points. America is very puritanical. I do not think that is a healthy system. However it it what it is and the bottom line is that we should have consideration for the culture we operate in.
Wherever that is. Not doing so causes harm even when unintended.
Fortunately over time our culture does seem to progress towards a healthier set of rules.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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lovegasoline makes some good points about the US. But is France really better?
"The French Republic ranks 57th in the world for women’s equality, behind much of Eastern Europe, as well as Mongolia, Uganda and others."
This is taken from the Washington Post, last year:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/10/25/why-french-women-have-so-little-equality-a-story-in-charts/
Which also states:
"Economic opportunity for French women is similarly low, particularly on wage equality, on which France ranks a stunning 129th in the world. According to the World Economic Forum’s global survey, France is the absolute worst in the world for gender wage equality.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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America is very puritanical. I do not think that is a healthy system. However it it what it is and the bottom line is that we should have consideration for the culture we operate in. Very well said.
Nice language Locker!
yer' incorrigible
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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However it it what it is and the bottom line is that we should have consideration for the culture we operate in.
Can't have the people in the third world fighting against the machine!
Gotta have consideration for the puritanical system they live in!
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