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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Apr 29, 2013 - 07:56pm PT
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Its a pity those crackers couldnt find another route to be elite on.
Everest has quite a few routes why crowd in? A real adventure could be had by leaving the yak routes to big business.
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orangesporanges
Social climber
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Apr 29, 2013 - 08:07pm PT
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Jan: It would be reasonable to place an onus on the likes of AC and HIMEX to encourage Sherpa Guides employed by them to offer safe passage whilst working, to those moving faster and elegant.
Cultures aside. The spirit in which Ueli and Simon move is central to the best parts of human character. Which ought be respected by the Sherpa Guides who essentially, are there foremost for income motives.
Ueli especially, would be amongst the first to risk themselves to save others. And as has happened in the past, Ueli would refuse payment or compensation for such. Such selflessness is not always shared amongst those working for the guiding companies.
It's Ueli and Simone that deserve their due respect and an apology on behalf of the Sherpa Guide community
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Gene
climber
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Apr 29, 2013 - 08:11pm PT
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Which ought be respected by the Sherpa Guides who essentially, are there foremost for income motives.
Aren't sponsored professional climbers also motivated by $$$. Climbing is what feeds them and their families, just like the Sherpa.
g
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orangesporanges
Social climber
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Apr 29, 2013 - 08:16pm PT
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Gene: My money is that Ueli and Simone were for years, climbing foremost for the adventure. And will likely continue to do so long after their sponsorships end.
I am not sure, but howz about the majority of Sherpa Guides - what drew them to Everest?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Apr 29, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
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At this point in time, Moro, Steck and Griffith have apologized to the Sherpa guides and the guides have apologized to them in a day long meeting with guides, expedition leaders, and Nepalese government officials in order to (I'm quoting Moro's website), "try to understand what happened".
As for money motivations, western people have many means of making money. The Sherpas live in a country where the per capita income is $300 a year and unemployment is above 50%. Their options are to climb or go to work in construction in the Gulf States, hardly a climate they are used to. Can you really blame them for earning a living at what they do best?
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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Apr 29, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
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I am suprised this kind of conflict is not more common.Perhaps it is, it just doesn't get the attention if it's not famous names involved.This was inevitable because of the larger and larger sums of money generated by massive commercial trips. Reilly is right, no crowds on K2. Few if any guided parties with massive support. The wide eyed wonder of doing it "because it's there" has been blinded by the money and the cottage industry that has been born into exsistance because of that money. In some ways it is ironic. They would not have had any issue on the SW face, West Ridge or North Face. But there would have been no one to "draft"as well. Hummm... TY
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 29, 2013 - 09:27pm PT
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Nepal could probably rake in as much dough and reduce clusterphucking if they instituted a quota and permit lottery.
I see it as inevitable.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Apr 29, 2013 - 09:31pm PT
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there would have been no one to "draft"as well. Hummm... TY
"drafting"? seriously?
you think u got something inside to share, go ahead and step up to the plate.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Apr 29, 2013 - 09:50pm PT
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I am defending the Sherpas because I know their culture and because there's no one else to defend them. I am not justifying violence.
Oh I get it. You are not justifying violence, you are defending it. Pacifists don't attack you or throw rocks at you even if do kick their ego around. They not only proved that they are not pacifists, but also showed themselves as cowards - with own actions.
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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Apr 29, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
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Klk, what I meant was they would have prolly been alone. They would not have been precieved as "stepping"on the working sherpa's toes. As in they were not "paying customers" in that sence.Perhaps you read into my statement or miss understood. In any case, these incidents are ironic at the least. TY
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 29, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
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I received an email today from a friend who leads treks in Nepal and is very in touch with what is happening in the Everest Area.
My friend passed on this email about recent events in Everest Base Camp:
while we were up there “7 Summits” showed up with 103 clients. ONE HUNDRED AND THREE. R U kidding?)
WOW!!!
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orangesporanges
Social climber
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Apr 29, 2013 - 10:45pm PT
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Jan: Not wishing to dis the Sherpa Guides will to make money. While Ueli and Simone would be their for the pure awesome-human-spirit-of-adventure whether they were being paid or not. Would the Sherpa Guides approach be different if they weren't their for the coin? Perhaps, if they see themselves as part of the climbing community as well, why didn't they respect Ueli and Simone's elegant fair means approach.
Ueli and Simone have shown themselves to be of a higher standard - in the way they climb and in the way they have tried to mend bridges even after lesser men mobbed them so cruelly.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Apr 29, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
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Orangesporanges-
I think it's safe to say 95% of the Sherpas wouldn't be there if there was no money involved and they had another way to make a living. There are some Sherpas who also do it for the adventure and challenge but I don't think any of them feel themselves to be fully integrated into the international climbing community yet. There is just too much discrepancy in education and income. The Sherpas who are educated don't work in the mountains - they are pilots, doctors, and business people.
As for fair means approach, I just had the insight that a large part of the problem, adding insult to injury, was Ueli Steck fixing rope above where the Sherpas quit. He did this with the very best intentions of helping but this was seen as a further encroachment on Sherpa perogatives and livelihood.
Another insight involving the mob mentality is that this has become the norm in Nepal unfortunately, in the chaos of the past ten years of revolution and virtually no government. The only way people there see to get their grievances addressed is through mass actions whether strikes or riots. I would really appeal to the Sherpas to not go down that road, especially with westerners.
And yes, Ueli and Simone have shown themselves of a higher standard both in climbing and mending bridges though we have yet to hear from the heroic Sherpas and westerners who intervened with the mob. They too deserve credit. What comes to my mind is the old adage, to whom more is given, more is expected. It's always inspiring however, to see people live up to their best.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Apr 29, 2013 - 11:28pm PT
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Probably a back story that will make it all understandable.
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Episodes such as this deserve a double face palm.
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Saying don't be killing the goose that lays the golden eggs or the Himalayan version there of.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Apr 29, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
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Here's the text of the agreement which was signed between the various parties after mediation by Nepalese Army officials.
Today, on 2070 Bhaishak 16 (April 29, 2013) at Everest base camp at SPCC office, with the presence of the Chief of Nepal Army team leader, Major Sunilsingh Rathor and the following attended personnels agreed to do the following decisions regarding the arguments between the two groups on April 27 while fixing ropes between camp 2 & camp 3.
1. On April 27 2013, above Everest Base Camp, at Camp 2 and Camp 3 an argument arose between foreign climbers and Nepali climbers and the situation was discussed today at this meeting. Both parties have realized their errors and apologized to each other in front of those present. Furthermore, both parties agreed to help each other in the future to make successful each others goals. It has also been decided that this issue will not be raised again.
2. All those present agreed and committed that such activities must never be repeated by anyone in mountaineering and in the tourism sector. If any party is dissatisfied with the actions of another party, they commit not to go into conflict or use violence against the other party. Instead they commit to report the actions to the government representatives or relevent government recognized association present at the base camps, to come to an amicable solution between the parties.
This was signed by Griffith, Steck, Moro, the managers of nine guide services, and Nepalese Army officers as well as fifteen Sherpas.
http://www.explorersweb.com/offsite/?source=http%3A%2F%2Ffeedproxy.google.com%2F~r%2FTheBlogOnAlanarnettecom%2F~3%2F04O9drIyR5E%2F&lang=en
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 30, 2013 - 12:34am PT
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... or to defecate on others' ropes.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Apr 30, 2013 - 12:45am PT
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Jan, really appreciate your voice in this.
Crazy stuff.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 30, 2013 - 04:09am PT
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+1 for Jan, again.
:0)
If I ever say I'm headed for Everest, somebody stab me in the eye with a javelin.
That mountain sounds more and more like exactly the opposite of all the reasons I started climbing.
Too bad the sherpas are stuck with all that greed, glory grabbing and monstrous mess on one mountain.
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orle
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2013 - 08:50am PT
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As for fair means approach, I just had the insight that a large part of the problem, adding insult to injury, was Ueli Steck fixing rope above where the Sherpas quit. He did this with the very best intentions of helping but this was seen as a further encroachment on Sherpa perogatives and livelihood.
Yeah, as I understand it, Woo Li Steck offered to fix hunderds of meters of rope for the Sherpas, and I can imagine that in doing the fixing (their fixing) he committed some unintended form of hubris...
It's hard to imagine a more humble and levelheaded person than Ueli, methinks.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Apr 30, 2013 - 09:08am PT
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A few more details have come in from Chad Kellogg. It seems he and two others ("Rory and Damien") took Sherpas from their expedition and tried to fix a route up the Lhotse face the day before the altercation, far to the right of the normal route to try to avoid the rockfall the climb suffered last year. They spent all day at it only to be stopped by a 60 foot wide crevasse. They then retreated pulling thier ice screws and ropes. He remarks that their Sherpas and others in Camp 2 were very annoyed that a whole day had been "wasted" and no fixed ropes put up.
The next day Steck, Moro and Griffiths went up climbing to the left of the main group of Sherpas who are putting up the route in the normal place. From the Sherpa point of view, their work was hindered two days in a row by western climbers and their decisions. Worse than crossing lines and endangering people in case of a fall, Simone swore at the sirdar (I think it was erroneously reported earlier that it was Steck who did that). In any case, they were angrier at Simone and demanded he make an apology on his knees which he tried to do on two occasions only to be beaten and stoned. Kellogg claims only five or six Sherpas were actively involved in the aggression. Still, their actions are unbelievable for people who had not been drinking. With good reason, three of them were removed from the mountain. A sordid affair for sure.
Most reports seem to be blaming the western climbers for interfering with the Sherpas. Of course they have a vested interest in this because they wish to separate themselves from the subjects of Sherpa anger and keep good relations in the hope of a summit. Meanwhile, everyone is shocked and saddened at the breach in relations between climbers and Sherpas and pondering underlying reasons.
http://www.humanedgetech.com/expedition/kellogg7/
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