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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 30, 2012 - 09:51pm PT
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So John M. how many years you got it?
Fact is, this "Post" has been traditionally an "Honorable" duty to be picked to serve in. It serves as a Memorial for ALL those unidentified remains that served in Combat since 1921.
It is Military Tradition and Honor throughout the world.
I never served, Chief, but I know honor and sacrifice when i see it. Cheers to you and all who serve and have served.
I respect you guys. God bless!
Those dudes at the TOTUS are are special kind of badass. Mucho respect!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 30, 2012 - 11:29pm PT
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Yeah..! f*#k the diginity...give me the green tent and hot tea...! RJ
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Oct 30, 2012 - 11:33pm PT
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Chief Petty Skirt said:
DUDE,
The verbiage of contingencies is completely so civilian in nature.
No such beast.
You either do or don't in the military. Simple.
No such beast for you. Planning for .contingencies is the domain of the commissioned officers. They didn't pay you to think and didn't want you to think. They did all the thinking so you didn't have to.
If I ever wondered why you never made it higher than "chief petty officer" now I know.
You must have been a great chief petty officer. They told what they wanted done and you did it. No thinking about "what if" or about consequences. No thinking at all. It's good that you had the commissioned officers to do all thinking for you.
This is brought to you by Jim Brennan who has approved this message.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Oct 30, 2012 - 11:51pm PT
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WernerNot everything associated and attributed with these two great personalities (Honor and Integrity) can always be seen with the naked eye.
Exactly. Which is why dressing up and perfoming a ceremonial duty doesn't rank real high on my list for judging honor and integrity.
As Donini put it, honor and integrity should be judged by actions. Actions that require going beyond the normal course of events, or doing something you wouldn't normally do. Returning the $500 you found when you really need the money. Reporting your buddies when they are doing the wrong thing.
I'll buy that these guys exemplify dignity, but that's more of an appearance thing, and a ways down my ladder from honor and integrity.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 30, 2012 - 11:53pm PT
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Why even respond to a moron such as graniteclimber?
He doesn't even deserve a response.
Don't acknowledge this screwball anymore.
Not worth anything at all, zero .......
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 30, 2012 - 11:55pm PT
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stevep
No you missed it.
You're only judging with your eyeballs ......
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Oct 30, 2012 - 11:57pm PT
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Werner, you should have your own reality TV show. You could be the captain of the U.S. Asshat and Chief Petty Skirt could be your No. 2. That's a show I'd watch.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Oct 31, 2012 - 12:19am PT
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And how am I supposed to judge a picture otherwise Werner? Touch and smell don't seem to be working :-).
I'm not one for ceremony. I appreciate the sacrifice that is honored by this monument and those soldiers. But something more impressive to me would be a picture of a wounded soldier doing PT at Walter Reed. Not standing around in dress uniform.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Oct 31, 2012 - 12:25am PT
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But something more impressive to me would be a picture of a wounded soldier doing PT at Walter Reed. Not standing around in dress uniform
Word.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Oct 31, 2012 - 12:38am PT
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It provides a more meaningful picture of the sacrifices made. But YMMV.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Oct 31, 2012 - 12:46am PT
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No one has yet made the important point: those tomb guards are out there in the schitt weather because THEY WANT TO BE THERE! This is part and parcel of what they volunteered for. The guards believe that the tomb needs to be guarded regardless of the weather. All those guys that are buried in Arlington didn't ask to be there, but they gave their all for all of us. It's more than just a point of honor...it's the ultimate respect given to our Nation's heros.
And yeah, I served on active duty U.S. Army; 21 September 1961-26 August 1964.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Oct 31, 2012 - 05:50am PT
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When my father died at 83; an Honor Guard served at his funeral. My father entered the war in 1943; fresh out of medical school and as usual as an officer because of the education. He never left Fort Sam Houston.
When the Honor Guard placed the folded flag in my sister's lap, his eyes reflected gratitude, respect and love for a brother in arms. There was not one speck of boredom, of going through the motions or any of the other signs of doing some senseless duty. His eyes and heart, as well as those of the other members of the Guard, radiated true compassion.
That spoke volumes to me, these guys had seen action in the first Gulf War, had lots of fruit salad on their uniforms. What they were doing was heartfelt.
Speaking to them after the service I inquired about doing such duty as so many WWII and later war veterans are passing at such high rates. The soldier with the steel for eyes had actually looked into the service record of my father and knew as much about it as I did. "He wasn't just making 8."
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Oct 31, 2012 - 09:36am PT
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Brokedown, Chief and others. I have no doubt that these guys feel like they are doing the right thing by standing guard there to honor their missing brothers. I also have little doubt that to get chosen to do this, these guys are probably some pretty top people, who have done plenty of outstanding things. But they are volunteers. And from what some have said here, this duty is regarded as a honor to be chosen for. Meaning it is something you want to do.
I'd argue that behaving with honor and integrity are universal good human values. And the personification and highest expression of those values is in behaving that way when you are doing something you don't want to do, not in a highly regarded volunteer duty.
p.s. Chief - Yes I am a civilian, but I know a few folks who have served, and I'd agree with your statement that the senior noncoms are the ones who actually make things work.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Oct 31, 2012 - 09:44am PT
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why does it need to be guarded?
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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Oct 31, 2012 - 10:50am PT
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DMT
That was most eloquently stated and in my opinion; summed up most of my thoughts.
I have read every post here and held off giving my thoughts, since they are indeed mixed.
Aside from the military, there are many civilians, who demonstrate honor and integrity, on occasion.
As a select group of people, climbers, on occasion, have to make a life or death decision, and often , on the spur of the moment. I can think of 2 occasions where I saved someones bacon; one recently.
Other groups, which come to mind are Fire, Police, Rescue Teams etc.
Among each group, certain individuals will shine, and lead the way.
This thread originally focused on the military and honoring fallen soldiers.
Somehow, I have a hard time lumping all fallen soldiers into a singular group to be honored. Sorry; that is my opinion.
The reason being that many of the conflicts the U.S. has engaged in; in my opinion; have been a complete waste of life and money.
Obviously, the second WW was most justified, and when I see the Honor Guard
guarding the Tomb; those are the fallen soldiers that come to my mind; since the war fought against Hitler, was most justified.
Thousands of individual soldiers have performed honorable acts since WW2; however, I question the basis of some of these conflicts ie: Vietnam etc.
I am particularly bothered by the fact that our government continually sends soldiers in harms way for a questionable reasons.
For the record, I have 2 purple hearts and a bronze star-Vietnam 68-70.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 31, 2012 - 11:12am PT
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You're no Monday Morning Quarterback Steve, you were there. Couldn't agree more on your comments about sending young men and women into harms way.
Going tower climbing in the desert for a few days.
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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Oct 31, 2012 - 11:36am PT
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Chief,
I was in the 4th Infantry Division stationed in the Central Highlands.
I'm going to try and get something done today, so I'm not going to get into a long drawn out discussion.
As you have already stated: the soldier CANNOT question his superiors- he must follow orders.
I think many here; who often have the wisdom of "old age", question many of the military activities our govt. gets involved with, and that is our right.
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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Oct 31, 2012 - 11:58am PT
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Jim,
Wish I could join you, but Joanie has given me my marching orders- no more climbing for now. Hell- she even complains about me being on Supertopo.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Oct 31, 2012 - 12:02pm PT
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While the soldiers duty is to follow orders. It is the civilians duty to question the leaders, vote wisely and raise a strong voice when things are found wrong.
In our nation a bad war is the failure of Civilians. Perhaps most of all the electorate who chose poorly.
Rarely have our soldiers failed us... Many are the times we have failed them.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Oct 31, 2012 - 12:04pm PT
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Good post climbski.
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