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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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I will not post further and yes saying that choosing to work rather than living at the Pit is not arrogent or hypocritical it's just my two cents.
Agreed.... you can like the idea of the pit, the people there, even the dirtbags, it doesn't mean that it's a GREAT idea to be a mooch...
I have friends that couch surf and refuse to work... love 'em to peices, but c'mon.
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jstan
climber
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Eric;
What do you propose we do?
Edit:
About 5PM while on the way to a meeting in the village I saw a car drive in to the Pit. The car stopped in the high area. I went over, introduced myself and asked their names and whether they had stayed there before. They had not but were aware of the place from the internet. So I showed them some pictures, told some of its history and gave them a copy of Fonda's rules. They asked if they should pick up immediately and if they should pay. I said probably wait and just look around before you leave and no money was required. I urged two things. They should treat the place gently but just as importantly they should enjoy their stay.
I try to imitate Thom Scheuer who was the ranger in the Gunks. I was riding in the Preserve truck on the carriage road with him once. He said about a party we passed, "They are not supposed to be doing that. but I'll give them a chance to enjoy themselves. Then I'll come back and bust them."
Thom's busts usually came down to an admonishment that they should try not to enjoy themselves too much. Too much enjoyment is bad for one's health. But he always got the message across.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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The first post in this thread sates there will be a sign with the site rules.
So that this will not continue we have restored the area to good condition and we wish to have the following rules followed by users. A sign will be put in place on the site to inform everyone.
Last year Clark suggested making up a list of "the rules." He said we should make copies and hand them out as people arrive, or put on their cars or what have you. I said that it was a good idea, but we needed to pass it by RLF before doing so. We should have been more proactive, I see now.
For what it's worth, anyone who reads about the Climbers Ranch" on the web does know the rules. And I can say that quite a number of people DO know of the Climbers Ranch from that website. Even the head ranger here in the Gunks asked me about that ranch... Most people assume it is as the website stated, and that the AAC is involved. Perhaps that site should be updated to reflect the current situation, perhaps not. Perhaps removed from view. I don't know - not my call.
But from what I saw the two seasons I have been there, quite a number of people who came there did so because they saw the website.
I am willing to help out during thew times I am there.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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That sucks....
Last year I recall seeing the first signs that people were going around - never mind they ran over plants. I would say that was not done by any of the regulars(though there was one person who constantly would open the gate and let it fall right there, and then run it over. It cracked and I duct-taped it back together thinking that clue would make a lightbulb go on, but the person continued to run the wood over until it broke the tape again.
But this looks a lot worse than how it was back in mid April. What the hell is wrong with people?! Even so, I am guessing it is mostly NOT climbers doing that. I did see people drive through the area while I was there, during daytime.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2012 - 01:54pm PT
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Unfortunately these are likely from locals on ATV's and the like. I spoke with Wally, I'm going to drag some large rocks down from the horse ranch on the tractor and at least close the "entrance" off.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
moving thru
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Yo All,
It's grate to be back in So Cal Tacoland and have computer access.
I'm tired from working today and hope I make sense here. Just want to say this.....
I count the Coz as my friend. Words are words. How people interpret them is pretty complex. Wars are fought cause people misunderstand and chose to believe the worst. Let's believe the best about Coz's joke.
It's an incredible Eve here in Sundiego and I'm enjoying the hootie owl, the moon and the water spraying life to the avocado trees.
L.
( I was going to close with Peace, Joy and Love but I thought it would be over the top for Scotty...hehehe)
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
moving thru
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Yo, rlf....
Can you find out what size choco or teva our "friend who drinks beer" wears?
Do you think way back in the day there was a Native American Name for Tucker Tech?
Peace, lynne
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2012 - 01:05am PT
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"Do you think way back in the day there was a Native American Name for Tucker Tech?"
Yup.
Dirt.
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sethsquatch76
Trad climber
Joshua tree ca
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God made dirt, dirt dont hurt...... Long live Tucker Tech!!!!!
RLF call me!!!!!!! I want to help with the signs.......... I have good ideas!!!!!!
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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coz is comparing apples and oranges.
jstan posting about trash cleanup is not the same as posting about behind-the-scenes conversations about access.
picking up trash is going to have its most impact if it's done in public view and then further publicized. you're far more likely to get more folks to pitch in too, or to shame others into picking up after themselves in the first place. john does stacks of stuff that he doesn't publicize.
on the other hand, publicizing some kinds of behind-the-scenes conversations over access could make things worse.
so far as the thread itself, i don't live in jt anymore, so have no opinion as to whether running a thread about it on st is likely to generate more problems.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oh Scott you lil devil you ...
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jstan
climber
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Friday night I welcomed a couple of youngsters who drove into the Pit as I was going by, They knew about the facility from the JT Ranch web page. I think the great service the Pit provides is allowing people to go climbing without either planning weeks ahead OR having their karma trashed by being forced to pirate camp. It is a real service.
When I first heard about the Pit and saw the rags and paper hanging from almost every bush my first thought was the one Scott describes. This is god-awful and right down the road from my property! Then I remembered all the years I, with no planning, parked at the steel bridge in the Gunks and just went climbing. Rather than activating my mouth and complaining about youngsters enjoying the same hospitality I had enjoyed, I determined to move my ass. And help make the area what it needed to be. Robert and Dave were of exactly the same mind and we did it. Now that it is cleaned and the next task is joining forces with the users to make the change permanent, having Scott voice his reservations is good. It keeps the issue on the front page and faced with his framing of the issue I think young people will join in with a will. Thanks partly to Scott, it is going to succeed. Keep it up.
Possibly there were other good effects. The work was known inside the JT Clean Team which was working on another Pit. This one apparently has a state of the art collection of dumped sofas. I suspect the completion of our Pit has encouraged them. In a week they plan to go in and get it done.
JT is blessed with incredible resources. People like myself who see them and come here to live have an equally incredible opportunity. A chance to participate in protecting them and helping all to learn what those resources have to teach us.
Kerwin is right when he says this is not the only thing going on. JT is a hot bed right now with many dozens of people working. I think the things others are doing are immensely exciting.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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How about an "iron ranger" to collect donations there at The Pit?
Bolt a war surplus ammo box to one of the rocks RLF is going to place next to the gate. Use the proceeds to offset the price of hauling all that sh#t to the dump.
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jstan
climber
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What's happening here is so incredibly good!
offset the price of hauling all that sh#t to the dump.
I have a San Bernardino County landfill resident's card so I did not have to pay $60 per ton. The only cost was the gas needed to take it to Landers and the rental on a trailer. It won't break me. The iron ranger could be a good idea. I think Robert and Wally need to sit down and determine how they want the facility to evolve and the service they want to provide. A little long term thinking. And of course the neighbors need always to be figured in.
ruining the place
While this may be part of the problem there are many components. For example one neighbor to the SW leaves their dumpster open. Downwind I found a dense trash plume. They just aren't aware of Bernouli's theorem. Until we know how best to communicate with them we have to wait. Also we picked up trash that was 60 to 70 years old. It was not on Park Service land so that was not a problem. The dead pet in a trash bag beside Hillview? There we just smile and remove. There are bigger things to worry about.
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hossjulia
Social climber
Eastside (of the Tetons)
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I walked around the place and picked up trash a couple of years ago. As I fanned out from the pit itself, it was apparent that the bulk of the trash blew in from somewhere else. The dumpster was not overflowing at this point. But it was full and we took our trash somewhere else.
I'm glad the car and rugs are gone. That was gross.
Thanks everyone. I've had a couple of great nights there around the fire.
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dickcilley
Social climber
Wisteria Ln.
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I´m running a great crew of Merry Pranksters here in Spain.Don´t think you´re going to see me in the Pit any time soon.As for the Gonzo Chemist incident,Iexplained the situation to him pretty clearly.As to threats,I only said that I would really like that they camp over in Sec.6.He took it pretty hard.I don´t think I´m that menacing really.
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hossjulia
Social climber
Eastside (of the Tetons)
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Hi Dick! No, not menacing at all. Have fun in Spain, you lucky dog.
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Ground-Up
Trad climber
ca
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The Pit Sucks
It probably sounds good to losers cause its free
In realty it is giving climbers a bad rap in town because of the type of (so called climbers) it attracts
If you cant afford 75 cents in gas to get to wide open BLM land just out of town where you can camp without sleeping in a rat infested pit then theres a good chance you are a loser
I think The Pit was created to meet girls by the owner if he really wanted to help let climbers stay at his house or next door to where lives
Im sure The Pits neighbors would be glad if it was gone
Would you want it next to your house where you were trying to raise kids
So called climbers drinking , partying, music and what else( if you cant afford to pay for camping or gas or a car)
Think about having it next door next time you think its cool
The Pit SUCKS (stop giving climbers a bad rap)
Please Close THE PIT
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jstan
climber
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Several houses bordering on the Pit had been disposing of their trash by throwing it over the fence. Trash, building materials, whatever. The following was fascinating however.
A dirt bike trail crosses the property as a short cut between the Park Ave/Coyote Hole area and route 62/Yucca Valley. You imagine that dirt bikers commuting on them might be financially challenged teen agers. But I found several large Starbucks containers on the south side of that trail. You can never tell what you will find. I do have to think some dirt bikes must come equipped with cup holders. Very odd.
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dickcilley
Social climber
Wisteria Ln.
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Everyone that stayed at the pit when I was there was a climber and climbed alot.Also, I have never heard of any JT.local complaining about the pit.Except ,of course,Cosgrove.
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