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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 15, 2012 - 01:40pm PT
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"The last four years has been similar to the previous four years.. "
Horsesh#t. Since 1/20/09, the economy has improved, and we're out of Iraq.
More perfect evidence of the fact that you can convince yourself of anything, no matter how detached from reality it might be.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Oct 15, 2012 - 01:44pm PT
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It's ok Ron, most other repubs won't admit it either....
Don't be happy, be worried. There, how's that?
I'm gonna keep on smiling my own self, even if I'm for a woman's right to choose until I run for president Romney gets in there!!
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 15, 2012 - 01:44pm PT
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well dirtbag, I hope you're right! problem with all the 'conspiracies' is that eventually people aren't open to believing any of them because there's been so much crap put out there in the first place. plus it's just goddammed tiring with all these scenarios of how things are going to sh#t....
As far as 'conspiracies' go, however, I'm sure we could be in agreement that a corporation like Monsanto is so deep in bed with the FDA and the governmental system that they'll get their way with GMO crops and food, etc. Just look at the GMO food labeling proposition in CA and the debate on labeling food. I guess my point is that at one point the evil of Monsanto may have been just a 'conspiracy theory' but it sure seems to be beyond theory at this point, at least in my opinion.
Same ol' conspiro-logical fallacy. Because bad thing A happened once is evidence that alleged bad thing B probably is happening.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 15, 2012 - 01:46pm PT
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Bush STARTED Iraq & Afghanistan.
Obama hasn't STARTED anything in any similar way.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 15, 2012 - 01:49pm PT
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"To the dead it matters not."
To the FAMILIES of the dead it matters a whole feckin' lot.
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Brock
Trad climber
RENO, NV
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Oct 15, 2012 - 01:51pm PT
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Answer to Fiscal Cliff: NO TO AID Climbing, the federal government should not give out Aiders or any other type of federal hooking. I suggest Redpointing as Onsighting the Fiscal Cliff will probably be WAY TOO hard. Hopefully everyone will have some thick 11mm ropes so we don't free solo repel off the cliff. Either way (Republican or Democrat) in 2013, we will be climbing out a deep hole and have to work hard to Summit as a Nation.
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John M
climber
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Oct 15, 2012 - 01:59pm PT
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if obama is re-elected, at the end of his second term, will you STILL BE screaming BUSH?
Do you know how long it took to turn the economy around after the great depression?
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MassiveD
Trad climber
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Oct 15, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
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"As far as 'conspiracies' go, however, I'm sure we could be in agreement that a corporation like Monsanto is so deep in bed with the FDA and the governmental system that they'll get their way with GMO crops and food, etc. Just look at the GMO food labeling proposition in CA and the debate on labeling food. I guess my point is that at one point the evil of Monsanto may have been just a 'conspiracy theory' but it sure seems to be beyond theory at this point, at least in my opinion. "
That is probably an example of the system working as it is intended to. I find the GMO strategy deeply disturbing, and aspects of it very unfair. But aside from the weirdness of GMO, it is not that different than the railway expansion, or any other big thing that requires cooperation between government and private industry. And one feature of certain aspects of that is that there are legitimate cases (almost all gone bad these days), where you can't have, or would prefer not to have, the public messing in stuff they don't understand. Unless you have a medical degree, or understand finance, should you really get to weigh in on medical research policy, or financial regulation. 10 years ago I would have said not for the most part, but these days things have gone really bad in standard policy areas. But the problem isn't conspiracy, it is more like Chomsky's manufacturing consent. It is how the system operates, even at it's most open. Monsanto's strategy seems fairly broadly know, and has been for many years.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 15, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
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"i MEAN that if they died in IRAQ OR AFGHANISTAN because both are an equal WASTE."
How strange that anyone might misconstrue your perfect writing style, Ron.
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John M
climber
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Oct 15, 2012 - 02:07pm PT
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So why do you blame Obama for not fixing the economy sooner? He was handed a big mess, yet because he hasn't fixed everything immediately, many people want to hand the country back to the very people who messed it up in the first place.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 15, 2012 - 02:10pm PT
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Yeah....I'm not sure if I'm more disgusted with the politicians who warp and skew to manipulate the perceptions of voters, or the people who have such gullible short-term memories.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 15, 2012 - 02:18pm PT
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I think peoples perceptions of what a President really does are a bit skewed. They also become easy targets to blame the country's problems on.
Carry on.
By 2013, I think things will become more clear as to what the real problem is. When those that create these problems are the ones telling us what they are and how to fix them we will never get beyond complaint.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 15, 2012 - 02:19pm PT
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Define 'lie', Ron.
That word is pretty broadly tossed about these days, and seems to mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. To my eye, you seem to define 'lie' as something that you understood to be true that didn't turn out the way you expected. Not sure I'd define it that way, myself.
"What i see with my own eyes is a FAR CRY from the "stories" i hear then tell on the news medias."
That much I'd agree with. I remember feeling exactly the same way midway through Shrub's Reign when there was so much talk about a healthy economy. None of that really 'trickled down' to me.
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John M
climber
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Oct 15, 2012 - 02:21pm PT
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But IF the current admin has failed thus far, in no way should we reward that with yet more time.
I agree, to a point, except for one problem. We have a two party system and if Obama doesn't win, then Romney will, and Romney comes from the party that created the biggest mess this country has seen since the great depression. I would rather not give the country back to them at this point.
What I don't agree with in your a*#essment is that Obama has completely failed. I don't think that he has completely failed. The republicans have created such a hostile environment in this country that getting anything done is nearly impossible. It took 14 years to turn the country around after the great depression, yet people want the country to be fixed immediately under Obama..
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 15, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
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I have a hard time seeing anything apocalyptic, but I'm somewhat like Anastasia. My mother is a survivor of the massacres of Armenians in the First World War. On April 24, 1915, she (at the tender age of three) was thrown into prison with the rest of her family, because her father was a professor at an American-sponsored college in Kharpert in Turkish Armenia. At age 100, she still remembers that day vividly. Her father was (choose one) [] executed [] murdered then. Somehow, she's not only managed to survive, but to thrive despite her circumstances.
My father was born into great privation here in America. He barely missed being drafted into the American Expeditionary Force in WWI, but lived through the Post WWI recession, worked and saved in the 1920's, opened his own store in 1930 (talk about poor timing!), fought in WWII even though he was 40 when they bombed Pearl Harbor, and we lived from hand-to-mouth until I went away to college in 1969 (at which time his business finally picked up).
Compared with what my parents went through, I just can't get very excited about my personal situation.
I think, however, John Gill's observation about the Fed's pumping up the money supply is is right on. That increase will result in significant inflation sooner or later.
John M, it took very little time to recover from the Great Depression. The problem is that the Depression itself lasted a very long time, because economic policy makers intervened and made it much worse. The trade war brought on by the Smoot-Hawley Tariff (Republicans), coupled with idiotic ideas like the National Recovery Administration (Democrats) insured that the Western democracies would stay mired in economic malaise long after Japan and Germany were recovering through re-armament.
Frankly, I don't see "Taxmageddon" as a very likely scenario. The economic ruin is too apparent, even to the clueless popular press. i do agree with Grampa that Prop 30 has no guarantee that school funding in California will be adequate, although Prop. 38 does. The "Munger Sandwich" may doom Prop 30 in any case. In truth, though, California has been driving away business and high-income taxpayers for at least a decade, and probably much more. As Jan states, we'll see a slow decline (we've actually been seeing it), not a cataclysm.
So yes, there are issues with 2013, but there have been issues as long as humanity left Eden. I think the best advice remains what Locker alluded to early in this thread:
Go climbing!
John
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 15, 2012 - 02:32pm PT
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Define 'lie', Ron.
That word is pretty broadly tossed about these days, and seems to mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
Amen, apogee!
John
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oct 15, 2012 - 02:50pm PT
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As i said before Ive fact checked and NOT WITH SNOPES, a very biased fact check site owned by far left.
prove it
prove from your sources that you got this "opinion" from that SNOPES is "biased"
and prove that they are "owned" by the "far left"
god damn, PROVE IT
I am tired of your constant blathering bullsh#t, Ron
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Oct 15, 2012 - 03:00pm PT
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Ron, you need to get a new hobby bro.....
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 15, 2012 - 03:02pm PT
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Ron, that's a blog.
Which means opinion.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 15, 2012 - 03:03pm PT
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I don't think you're stupid, Ron, but you sure display a persistent tendency to rely entirely upon sources that support your pre-formed opinion, or if that fails, to revert to willful ignorance.
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