Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 12:33pm PT
|
Kris is correct, I DoTendto say and make outrageous statements.
That is just me being me.
I try to state my objections to easy SAR callouts as follows:
I have some friends who were climbing the NOSE, their dream climb.
They were prepared for everything, had some storm gear, extra food and water and were ready to last about 5 days if nessary.
So on day two they were up by Great Roof and it started to rain- Hard.
So they hunkered down, to wate out the rain.
Next am, Two French climbers .... Rap in on them... Freezing, hyperthermic and demanding shelter.
Of course by friends accominated these visitors.... Fellow climbers after all.
They never did the nose, cause the food and water got used up.
The French dudes admitted that they gambled on doing the climb in a push, so miminal - Read almost none- gear or food water, and knew that if they needed help YOSAR would be there if needed.... "like in the Alps".
Bottom line for me, and I know others will disagree, is that the prospect of quick easy rescue makes climbers complacent about just how serious climbing really is.
One of the things I have always admired about the old time CLIMBERS who taught me how to climb and how this "sport" works was their attitude about being self sufficient.
So I guess this attitude is losing favor with many of today's "climbers" along with many other attitudes.... like boldness.
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
|
Dave.....
True, statement ..... but at almost all places I climb at have no cell service.
And one of the best things to shake out of this thread are the stories about CLIMBERS self rescuing and all the help fellow climbers gave them.
And last thing.... The hard working SAR teams, who risk their lives, rescuing folks, deserve all of our thanks and gratitude we can give.
|
|
matty
Trad climber
under the sea
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 01:13pm PT
|
I Do Tend to say and make outrageous statements.
Guy is one of the most outrageous people I know. Can we send out a SAR team to bring him back to reality?
|
|
stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 01:13pm PT
|
25 or so years ago I helped rescue a guy off Tahquitz. The litter was not where it was supposed to be so we ended up dragging the guy down the hill on a poncho in the dark. Not much fun for anyone involved, but we got it done.
People made stupid mistakes back then as well. There were just fewer people climbing and no cell phones. Maybe gyms have contributed a bit as well. But it's a stretch to go from that to no SAR. Sh!t happens sometimes, even to the well-prepared. And if the choice is between death or long-term injury issues, and calling for help, then having the option to call for help is a good thing.
|
|
neversummer
Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 01:15pm PT
|
I recommend David Fasulo's "self rescue 2nd edition"...being somewhat green by most standards ive been learning some pretty good stuff from it, last weekend i worked a 2 bolt rte on rope solo w/clove hitch to setup a scenario of my belayer being out cold and having to make it to the top on my own and it worked like a charm.
|
|
scuffy b
climber
heading slowly NNW
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 02:21pm PT
|
Does anyone remember a rescue of a guy who took a huge fall (100 ft)
in the vicinity of the Trough in the late 70's, maybe even Feb 77?
Snow on trail, civilians carrying and sliding the litter down, meeting
the SAR guys at Humber Park?
I always wondered how that guy fared.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 03:24pm PT
|
Guy is one of the most outrageous people I know. Can we send out a SAR team to bring him back to reality?
Better make sure they have those black helicopters...
|
|
tbailey
Trad climber
canoga park
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 04:16pm PT
|
heard you did the South Face on the Hermit recently. Did it a couple of months ago. On fourth or fifth pitch after short jam crack went right instead of around corner of buttress. we rapped a sling around crappy detached flake and finished the route up the face of the buttress. i left a nut to back up the flake. First booty left in 20 years. Wanted to go home if you know what i mean. Went to big baldy last week or so i thought. Five pitch new route, not Baldy, oops! heading to Whitney Portal tomorrow to do Strassmans route,and Bony Fingers again. Still hate getting to the crack after the bolts on first pitch. Curious as to what you thought about the south face. Bitch to get off.
Sorry dont post much, but as my friend says "shut up and climb' unless your with Gene mayo then its "listen and climb followed by Gene shut up and climb"
Later!
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 05:05pm PT
|
Classic post Bailey!
We started on some ledges at the bottom, did a nice crack up to a lousy dirty chimney followed by a wide crack to a ledge. We traversed the ledge and climbed the huge dihedral in the middle of the face for two long pitches and then found an easy way to the true summit. One rap off the north side to the talus.
It may never be clear where Beckey and McHale started, there are two main options and they don't really seem to know which they did, but it is very clear from talking to McHale and also from Beckey's entry in the 1971 AAJ that they got up to and climbed to huge dihedral. In the green guide the photo of Miguel in that corner is right, but the topo is another route done by EC Joe in 1977. Basically I think the route called Charlie Knapp in the guide is the original S Face Route. Carson, Patrick Paul and Laeger did a Charlie Knapp Route on the Fin over by CRS, not on Hermit.
Hey check yer email...
|
|
Barnesfam
Sport climber
Corona CA
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 06:02pm PT
|
Wow, where do I start? Daphne thanks for the kind words and support. I am "that climber" I am 52 yrs old and was climbing with 2 of my kids. We climb regularly but are relativley new to Tahquitz. First let me say I made a BIG mistake by not backing down on the last pitch when I new I had to be off the slab portion of Angels Fright. I am not going to justify my mistake because I can't.... I just want to clarify some details for the haters out there. We were setting up for a self-rescue when Passed out and rolled off the flake that I was sitting on. I was only out for seconds but 911 was called during that time. My 17 yr old set up the anchors to lower me to the halfway point and my 21 yr old rapped down with me. Then we set it all up again and we got to the bottom of the climb.
The Cal Fire crew was there by then and they are the ones that called the helicopter. I tried to tell them that I could make my way down the climbers trail and they said no way.
When the first 2 guys from Riverside Mountain Rescue showed up they told me to relax and not to worry about all of the commotion. They said it is what they train for. In fact, both of them had been on my side of the rescue. All of the Rescuers were amazing and they took great care of me.
My son Isaac did a great job with the rescue and I also beleive that you need to train for situations like this. He is my hero for sure.
I know that there are many who will read this thread and learn something just as I have. KEEP IN MIND THE RATING OF YOUR CLIMB. BACK UP AND LOOK AGAIN. BE PREPARED.
Thanks again to ALL of those that participated, Dave and his friend (Tiffany I think) on the rock, John the paramedic, Donnie and Wes from RMRU and most of all Isaac.
With much appreciation,
Dave
|
|
matty
Trad climber
under the sea
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 06:10pm PT
|
Thanks Dave-
It's always big when someone in your position posts up on a thread like this with all the different opinions flying around. Glad your OK and got down safely and learned from your mistake. Hope you heal up quick and get out climbing with your kid again. My dad just got in town and were off to yosemite to climb so I know the special bond you have. Sounds like yo uhad the situation under control on our own and youre sons knew what to do. Good for them (and you). Thanks again for sharing and never be hesitant to retreat in the name of safety.
Matt
|
|
John Butler
Social climber
SLC, Utah
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 06:43pm PT
|
Dave,
Glad to hear all's well, more or less. Best wishes and major props to your boys :-)
Jb
|
|
Daphne
Trad climber
Black Rock City
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 07:17pm PT
|
Yay Dave! I'm sending good vibes for healing.
|
|
Zander
climber
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 07:42pm PT
|
Good luck to you Dave,
Sound like you have a couple of good sons.
Cheers,
Zander
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 07:43pm PT
|
Dave.... sorry to derail the thread at the beginning, but I knew that you were not all busted up- Cause I got a call about your condition and no "hate" was directed at you. If you got that impression I am sorry for that.
I admire you for climbing with your kids. I stopped taking my 15 year old daughter out to Taquitz primarily because I did not wish to expose her to hazards encountered at that place.
We go sportclimbing but that is "fun". Climbing alpine (I consiter Taquitz alpine) is much more serious, one can easily get killed, and I think you need to make the decision of risk on your own. Anyway she watched " Touching The Void" and now wishes to go do that stuff. I let her know that she willneed to learn many many new skills before we get on ICE....
But I digress.
You should be very proud of your sons for rescuing you and dealing with a harry situation.
I have been thinking about SAR, and some of the very expert opinions expressed on this topic.
SAR is nessary and if I ever need to have them rescue me I will be grateful for it.
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 07:49pm PT
|
There is no regret to be had here, only an experience that will teach you great things.
Hope to see you out there soon buddy.
Greg (from Nomad Ventures)
|
|
Barnesfam
Sport climber
Corona CA
|
|
|
Sep 28, 2012 - 08:32pm PT
|
Guyman and Greg,
Thanks for your comments following mine. I know that things are not usually what they seem at first light and I am just glad that I had a chance to clear some things up. I met a lot of awesome people that day and I know that even in the many comments of this thread that there are people who will learn from my mistakes. It's all good and thanks to all for the good wishes.
Dave
|
|
sowr
Trad climber
CA
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2012 - 11:54pm PT
|
Wow - some hard people out there who've never made a single mistake. Must be nice to be one of the elite. I've never been rescued waved a helicopter off the Matterhorn North Face in the 70's and one off Jacinto Snow Creek back in the 80's. otherwise never been rescued and always managed to cheat my way out of trouble. But I am a member of a local SAR and have no problem mentoring or rescuing. Times are different, if someone is in trouble in the mountains you'd better go help them, or you're nothing more than an animal seeking its own reward.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Sep 30, 2012 - 12:37pm PT
|
It was probably around 1990. I was mellowing out in Humber Park with a friend after a big day climbing. It was dusk when we heard a distant cry, “help!!” from high above. It sounded like it came from somewhere way up near the top of the White Maiden.
I recall commenting that it was a nice warm evening, no danger from exposure, and wondering if I was going to be going up there. Then there it came again… “Help!!”
I was talking with my friend. “What’s the plan? Hike to the top, try to figure out where they are? Rap in?” It was becoming clear that this whole SAR thing was not really my gig. I could get myself out of a fix, but to go up and find and rescue another party? I was getting psyched for an all nighter when a Riverside County Sheriff cruiser rolled into the parking area. Someone from one of the nearby homes must have heard the yells and made a call.
The Deputy Sheriff shut off his car and stood there listening. There it was again… “Help!!” He went to the trunk of his vehicle and got a megaphone. Aiming this amplifier in the general direction of the rock, his first question for the stranded climbers was “ARE.. YOU.. ANCHORED??” I was surprised, he seemed to know something about climbing. Moments later an answer drifted down from up high… “Yes… We are on belay…”
The Sheriff raised his megaphone again, this time asking “ARE.. YOU.. INJURED??” After a pause, my guess is that they were considering the implications of their answer, the stranded party answered “No… No injuries..!!”
After a longer pause, we heard another call from the stranded climbers; “Can.. you.. make.. a.. phone.. call..?”
The Sherriff immediately answered “..NEGATIVE!!”
Later that night RMRU rolled in, and in the morning they were escorting the stranded climbers down the trail as we hiked up for another nice day climbing, seeking our own rewards...
|
|
HighGravity
Trad climber
Southern California
|
|
|
Sep 30, 2012 - 04:29pm PT
|
Dave,
Glad to hear you're doing well. Both Wes and Donnie are great guys. Hopefully some other will read this and help out the team or join up. I have nothing but respect for RMRU.
http://rmru.org/
Eric
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!