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I am
Trad climber
San Diego, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
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I'm still working on getting my topos to the point for scanning and posting but if I don't finish this week, will, or should, be finished by end of next week.
In the famous words of Gallager - "I am who I pretend to be!".
For some it's more like "I pretend to be who I am.".
As for me, I still am who I was and always will be but have made some improvements over time as I expect most of us all do in time.
I never intended to grow older not ever intended to grow up but when I turned 19 my Dad showed me the front door and told me I could come for dinner on Sundays and also do my laundry.
And as I was walking out that front door to my parents house he added "It's time for you to sink or swim." - and I've been swimming ever since.
A few years later when he and I were sitting on the back yard swing listening to the doves cooing and having a drink and talk, I apoligized to him for my last two years at home for being such a "bad" son, my nickname since 2 had been and always still is "Taz".
He said that I didn't have to apoligize as now he and Mom were so proud of me, as I'd finally become my Father's Son once more, holding down a full time job, married with two children, coaching soccer at the Boys & Girls Club, etc.
Then I told him of all the many things he and Mom did for me that the best thing he ever did was to show me the front door and tell me to sink or swim.
So yes, we can now leave Jesus, Stone Master, Peter Croft, my job title, etc. and just deal with "me".
As noted, I'm currently working week by week on reopening up the trail system I put in several years ago with my son to the standard I like of being wide so as to have better ease of seeing well enough to not get bit by the rattlesnakes that I've come accross in San Diego back country.
When Mike Davis and I first went to Descanso there was a faint old trail that was way overgrown that led to the Main Wall.
Expecting to find numerous, hopefully, routes there only could find the one in the center of the wall that we dubbed "Space Ramp".
It's the most natural line there and at the crux at the end of the crack/seam we found one fixed piton.
As I was leading up that climb I kept looking to the left and right to see signs of pitons or bolts as this wall is mostly face climbing and could see none.
When Mike followed he did likewise and then we walked around as much as we could while cutting the bushes to the minimum and I quickly realized that we had found a pot of gold.
The rest of the rock and other outcrops there were waiting for someone like me to come along and work with the rock to create that which the rock had to offer in the way of climbing routes.
I quickly brought up other climbers, in particular Ed Brennick of whom had taught me how to lead along with other old school climbers such as Howard Carey who quickly jumped on "King of Swing" which is a wonderfull top-rope climb at the top of the main wall, because if you fall from it you take a fun swing from up high.
Several other climbing partners came up over the first couple of years and of course said I was running them out too far so with their imput I learned to come to my senses and started adding more bolts to the climbs I had put up and then likewise to the ones I put up later on.
If I had left many the way I 1st climbed them and insisted that no bolts get added, there would be a whole lot of complaining going on as I've learned that a 5.11 climber putting up a 5.7 climb has to think of the 5.7 climbers who will come along later and not create death routes even though I could adopt the attitude that they can just top-rope if they don't like it.
But as noted I also felt and found much agreement from my partners that my efforts and ideas were well thought-out along with their added imput about have diversity in this area, such as bolts without hangers, some runouts but with the oppertunity to bail onto eaiser ground if one changed ones mind say 40' up with no, or almost no great protection and downclimbing would be difficult and could lead to someone getting injured.
I never want to put up such a climb where there a point of no return that has no way to get out of a dangerous situation.
This is why I added another bolt (hangerless) to go along with the one with a hanger just before you start the 1st crux before reaching the roof of "Into the Eye of the Son" at Descanso so that if you can't do the crux to get to the roof you wouldn't have to lower off with just one bolt but could add a nut on the extra added bolt then rap down later to reclaim your nut.
And that's also the beauty of the 3 areas noted is that they are all top-ropeable and no one ever has to take any lead climbing risks, just have fun all day long.
I climbed intensely for 15 years as I "had" to climb.
I "needed" to climb once I discovered it as I was not only born to climb, I needed it to keep from ending up in the bottom of a bottle as I discovered climbing a couple of months after my 13 month old daughter died.
It kept me from looseing it as I still had a wife and son to support, never worry about me as I didn't care about me.
So I lived for climbing for those 15 years and they saved me yet one day I got past my greveing and didn't need to push the limits anymore as I was always walking the tight-rope of climbing and often without a net.
I was rope-soloing 5.11+ and even some 5.12's, free soloing 5.11 regularlly, I was even distraut enought to free solo "Into the Eye of the Son" and when I reached the roof it began to drizzle, then light rain, and there's no down climbing from there-I was at the point of no return.
So I just kept my hand jams locked in and waited for the rain to stop and it did after only a couple of minutes, probably 10.
Then I had to wait for the rock to dry which took another 15 minutes or so before I could dare to finish it.
When I looked up from the roof just before I began to finish the climb there was a rainbow over the top of the crag and a raven flew into it and did a roll over to show off his flight mastery and to inspire me.
And at no other time in my climbing life have I ever been as much impacted from that one free solo.
From that day on I climb anything that caught my eye as I was invincible.
Then one day while rope soloing at Temple Crag in the Sierras I had a gut feeling and a vision that I needed to get off so rappeled down as I was only 2 pitches up.
When I got down and was only a couple of hundred yards away heading back to my basecamp, I heard it then saw it coming down.
About the size of a bowling ball rock directly down the climb I was trying to put up and it would have wiped me out completely.
It was then I knew that it was time to move on and let climbing go.
But I love to climb so am coming back out of retirement and will climb just for fun now, but it'll be a bit hard to do so I think as I know that the animal that I once was is still within me.
And I expect to find that I still am who I was and always will be-Martin Veillon-The Mountain That Walks!!!
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Wel Said Cosgrove..
I am with ya..
for me my routes, my past are part of who i am and those around me who molded me over the years. i wanted to carry the torch of ethics of my peers and respect those who came before me...
times change, people change, me included. but the past is the past and the efforts that those of our generation put into the "sport" have earned that right of respect. We are the last of the stone masters, before the sport went main stream and became a business for so many..
to me it will always be about adventure, camaraderie and climbing rocks...
ks
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WBraun
climber
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As I remember Kurt you almost died on "Cookie Monster" when those pins shifted by the guy who lead it for you on aid didn't do a good job of setting them.
He was an aid n00b.
Cookie monster has vey bad rock for the first third and I believe it was Shultz who bolted it.
Shultz was the one who was physically fighting Kauk orignally for putting up the rap route TKO.
How ironic all this sh!t is played out ......
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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If you compare the climbing scene in S.D. County, with, let's say Tuolumne, S.D is all spread out, and you don't have a close knit community where ethics, history, and tradition are preserved and passed on.
It is admirable that you bring it up, and do your best to protect the integrity of your 1st ascents, but it's a challenge to get the message out in an area like that.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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...the guys doing the FA's have no more right to the stone as anyone else. They certainly have no claim to such, that's a fact.
...it's just messing or vandalizing someone else's creation.
So which is it? Does the FA own the rock and the route or not? You say that they have no more claim to it any more than anyone else then go on to call it THEIR creation. Which is it? Does it belong to the FA or not? Did Columbus create the ocean, his route to the America's, or the coastline?
Other than pointing out that the route is just a path up the rock that can be owned about as much as "left" or "over there" can be owned, bolts are abandoned, and the rock belongs to the land owner, I do agree that bolting a climb that was climbed plenty of times without the bolts sucks.
I only respect the FA because whoever climbed something before me was most likely a better climber and maybe even a better person than I.
The FA has a right to claim that they were the first up the route but that's all they can claim. Anything that other climbers do with respect to that climb is either a show of respect, of disgust, or of ambivalence. It's not a gift of ownership.
Dave
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Lightenin'
climber
Muleshoeville
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... As for me, I still am who I was and always will be but have made some improvements over time as I expect most of us all do in time ...
I like your story. It tells of a life with meaning. Although we are very different, if we met I believe we would become friends. You deserve more respect than having some other soul needlessly bolt your climb. That was mindless.
I have three hopes for you:
First, I hope that by posting your topos it doesn't happen again.
Second, I hope that the guidebook writer recognizes his errors and makes the appropriate corrections.
Third, I hope that the soul who bolted your climb understands he (or she) erred and finds the strength to make amends and encourage others not to needlessly bolt.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Just how many bolts are we talking about here that were added to your routes......3.....5....10......just to complete the whole picture here...(As someone who also does FAs....yeah;...it's no fun to have people mess with your FAs.....I know where you are coming from...)....
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I am
Trad climber
San Diego, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2012 - 01:36pm PT
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Lightenin, thanks for the kind words and yes, I know that we would be friends should we ever meet.
No worries, it's all good!
I've calmed down but as all can tell, I don't like wasting my time removing bolts from the climbs I've labored on.
An old climbing partner of mine, Don Simpson, called me yesterday and we're going to get back together now that are sons are on their own and we once again will make more time for ourselves.
As far as the question that came after your reply about how many bolts were added to "Into the Eye of the Son", they put in at least 6 along the crack/seam that protects with "clean" pro and then 3-4 others up to the roof.
I'm not sure if there's more higher up as I haven't yet gotten back on the rock to climb as I'm only focusing on reblazing open the trail system first and then start climbing once again later on this year.
Reblazing the trail is a lot of work and yes, I'd love others to join me in this as well and I'd be happy to show them where the other unclimbed rocks and/or routes are as I did not climb everything, just a whole lot as the rock there when we first went there in 1987 had only one climb that had evidence of an ascent-we dubbed it "Space Ramp" and it is the most obivious climb in the center of the main wall with a fixed piton at the crux.
Then we looked the rock over and could not find any other evidence of more routes and perhaps they only top-roped or never came back or just climb without any other fixed pro.
Perhaps someone like John Bachar came and climbed numerous routes without pro or maybe even free solo.
But I expect this was not the case and so we began putting them up week after week for years.
Close to home, short approach, excellent rock, rattlesnakes to keep you sharp and entertained.
When we put up "Trying to Go Straight" I was at the point nearing the top when I knew it was time to put in a bolt, the only bolt on the climb.
Then the drill bit broke and I had no spares, a mistake I never made again.
The hole was barely 1/2" deep so I called down to Mike Davis and he suggested I downclimb while he took up slack and then jump off the overhang near my last pro.
I thought about it for about 2 seconds then called down "Off belay!"
"Untie yourself and move out from under my line should I fall."
"There's only one way for me and that's up to the top and whatever you do, don't talk to me until I get to the top."
I untied and went deep inside myself and let out that other animal that lives within me and free soloed the rest of the way and felt like a God.
From that moment on I knew who I was, who I am and all that I was meant to be.
I was living life to the fullest and as close to all the Universe as I could get and been loving and living it ever since.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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May 10, 2012 - 03:10pm PT
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I live in Escondido Martin, but I may be down to help with some trails if I have the time to get to Descanso. I've been there once and had a good time. We climbed Space Ramp and messed around on some other stuff nearby.
Looking forward to checking out the topos once you are able to post them.
Feel free to Pm me if you need any help or need a climbing partner.
Claudio
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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May 10, 2012 - 03:57pm PT
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So if you've had to remove bolts a few times already you should just keep removing them until they stop re-bolting?
When your talking about a small crag like Descanso I don't think you will have enough climbers raising a stink about it to make whoever is doing it stop.
I believe part of Martys' gripe is that he has removed bolts already and does not want to keep doing it. And he probably won't, but he has a right to express his frustration even though the whole "original stonemaster thing may have distracted from the main issue at first.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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May 10, 2012 - 04:26pm PT
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Yo I am,
your posts are too long bro.
I got shchit I gotta do.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 10, 2012 - 04:44pm PT
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I finally looked the route up, looks quality, but the bolts are awful.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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May 11, 2012 - 03:18am PT
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When we put up "Trying to Go Straight" I was at the point nearing the top when I knew it was time to put in a bolt, the only bolt on the climb.
Then the drill bit broke and I had no spares, a mistake I never made again.
The hole was barely 1/2" deep so I called down to Mike Davis and he suggested I downclimb while he took up slack and then jump off the overhang near my last pro.
I thought about it for about 2 seconds then called down "Off belay!"
"Untie yourself and move out from under my line should I fall."
"There's only one way for me and that's up to the top and whatever you do, don't talk to me until I get to the top."
Rad on so many levels. Your route names are dope too.
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Anxious Melancholy
Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
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May 11, 2012 - 11:53am PT
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BITD there was a coffee can at the base of the Space Ramp that held Martin's topos and notes. I "borrowed" the thing for a few days a ran a copy for my personal use, before returning my set to the can. Meanwhile Martin had already replaced my pilfered set. Anyway, now that a guide has been published, and Martin has indicated that he would be putting up some topos here, perhaps it might not be all that wrong for me to post one of his original sets? MV, if this isn't OK, let me know and I'll pull this post.
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gershman
Trad climber
San Diego, Ca
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May 11, 2012 - 05:12pm PT
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Geez, AM's copy of that topo basically seals the deal. Bold, lead climbing in So Cal, well documented by first ascent party = sac up or go somewhere else. No big deal. True that nobody "owns the rock" , but there are definitely some traditions to this bitchin' lifestyle of climbing that seem pretty cut and dry. Those bolts should have never been added to those routes if the FA wasn't consulted.
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I am
Trad climber
San Diego, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2012 - 11:53am PT
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Thanks AM, I don't mind if you post and somehow I always knew that the coffee can thing wouldn't work out for too long.
As noted, I've put out Lawson Pk. and Stonewall Pk. on the mountainprojects site and will be adding Descanso by tomorrow.
Then I will also post all 3 on this website in the forum section, as I spoke with Chris who seems to be handling the topo section, and he told me that they don't have a section for my pdf's, so therefore am posting as directed in digital photos on the forum in the next couple of days.
Then I'm done with that of which I have started, a ripple in the pond of knowledge, memory, wisdom and intellegence.
I has brought out what I expected and then some.
I'm looking for other like souls to possibly find time in assisting me with the trail cutting job as there's so much left yet to climb at Descano, Stonewall and Lawson Pk. areas.
But we need good trails due to the rattlesnakes as this is more dangerous than most any runnouts.
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