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Gene
climber
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Mar 23, 2012 - 05:18pm PT
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Bookworm,
Links? Sources? Thanks.
g
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Mar 23, 2012 - 05:20pm PT
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If Zimmerman IS in fact proven that it was self defense, the whole race on race issue is just gonna do a backflip and turn around onto those making a big deal of it...
And Al Sharpton will most likely go home.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Mar 23, 2012 - 06:07pm PT
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People need to act civilly to one another. Breaking into my place or attacking me when I'm out isn't civil behavior. It's hostile aggression, plain and simple. The consequences become their problem. What wrong with that?
The irony is this statement is just too much.
Premise: we need to be civil to one another. Exception: But, if we're not, the person asking for civility has the right to shoot and kill the person who allegedly acting uncivil.
That'll teach you to act civil.
This law is proof that the patients are running asylum. Need further proof? Bookworm thinks it's a good law.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 23, 2012 - 06:26pm PT
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I suspect that in the old days when overtly carrying a deadly weapon was deemed acceptable that people actually were a bit more civil as the consequences for not doing so could be immediate and severe.
We have become a defiant rude self-righteous culture.
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Urizen
Ice climber
Berkeley, CA
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Mar 23, 2012 - 06:32pm PT
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Thanks, Ron. I've been both puzzled and amused over the years by old novels (like those by Walter Scott), full of guys swaggering around armed to the teeth and yet careful to address each other so formally as, "Gentlemen," "Brave knights," or "Cavaliers." You explained it in one sentence.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Mar 23, 2012 - 07:00pm PT
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Seems like one eyewitness statementsupports Zimmerman's position and the other one's writen statement does as well.
Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.
That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
"I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt — Zimmerman — who was on the ground.
The boy said he is not sure who called for help. After a moment, his dog escaped, and he turned to catch it and a few seconds later heard a gunshot, he said.
"When I heard the shot, the screaming stopped," he said.
He then rushed inside and told his sister to call police.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-15/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315_1_robert-zimmerman-letter-unarmed-black-teenager
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Mar 23, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
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There are some parallels to the Tawana Brawley case in the political mob response going on here. I would say that that example is a poor comparison. Tawana Brawley claimed to be a victim of violence from white supremicists (sp?) to explain her failure to return home by curfew. She inflicted some minor injuries on herself to support her story.
The victim here is DEAD. Moreover, that person may not see any justice given a poorly thought out, poorly drafted law that was heavily supported by a very powerful special interest group and which appears to create a presumption that the person perpetrating the violence was within his or her rights to do so.
The only comparison between the two scenarios I see is that people are proactively rallying around the person they most identify with.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 23, 2012 - 07:14pm PT
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Lets assume they really did have some sort of fight, we still don't know.
One had a gun and other did not.
Why would the one with a gun "fear for his life", as the law apparently requires to act?
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Mar 23, 2012 - 07:35pm PT
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That's an interesting way to look at it DMT.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Mar 23, 2012 - 07:52pm PT
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Changing nothing about the original event, except reversing the races of the two individuals, and this whole thing would be on no one's radar. I'm not sure why you would make that statement since I don't believe it's reasonable that anyone would subscribe to that view.
If an armed loser (allegedly) stalked and killed an unarmed individual and was not arrested given a new, controversial law, there would most certainly be a firestorm over the event. Imagine that the stalker were a down on his luck African American and the victim were a blonded headed teenager from a good family. You honestly don't believe that scenario would register on any kind of current events radar?
Edit: BTW, I don't disagree with the view that there are people who will mine such events for political gain, sadly, but don't be naive enough to believe that it will be limited to liberals and African-Americans.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 23, 2012 - 07:59pm PT
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the kid was getting stalked, he was trying to run away and hide. that is all pretty darn clear from the texts from his phone. Zimmerman caugt up to him and they had a fight that zimmerman instigated by chaseing the kid. Fight does not go zimmermans way so the pussy pulls a gun and kills the kid. Zimmerman still instigated the whole situation.
If you carry heat you have an obligation to stay out of troubble because ANY physical confrontation you find yourself in is deadly simply because you have that gun on your person. Any physical fight that you do not finish in a knockout quickly will most likly end up being a struggle for your gun if the fight goes to ground. That puts the responsibility to stay out of fights on the CWP carrier. That is what I was taught in the armed guard Courrier class that I took.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 23, 2012 - 08:30pm PT
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Am I the only one disturbed by the fact that the guy's name is Zimmerman?
I mean, WTF?
The guy is hispanic. You could even say race is not an issue because he is swarthy skinned, BUT THEN HE GOES AND SAYS "COONS" AND HAS THE NAME ZIMMERMAN.
Crazy world.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 23, 2012 - 08:43pm PT
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Well crafted caveat to keep me from calling you on your BS.
But damned if I won't fight for your right to be wacky as long as you still help people.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
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Mar 23, 2012 - 08:45pm PT
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Zimmerman?
Yeah even Bob Dylan didn't like the name. This guy shoulda changed it before he went out gunning for coons.
This reminds me of all those "sports" out there who with a pack of dogs, several guns, a tracker and no balls go out and slaughter the innocent aninals walking the earth and grin about it, like they're some way macho dudes.
If Z-man had any fortitude he'd a put down his gat and had a fist fight with the kid. Likewise, those other guys. Why don't they arm up with a knife and go out fight a fair fight with a mountain lion.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Mar 23, 2012 - 08:48pm PT
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And f*#k guns and this idiotic gun culture..
You need a gun you are a scared pussy..
A real man will still take it away from you and shove it up your a*# anyway...
Maybe that is why ya all need more than one...
But it will never be enough if you are a scared little bitch like this killer.
This is where you lose me, and make me believe you are most likely mentally handicap in some way shape or form.
Who's the real man who's going to take my gun from me? The guy who is breaking into my house?
The "I don't have a gun because i'm not a pussy" scenario. So I hear a person come up my stairs, okay. Then I hear them break my window. Okay. Then they come in and kill me. Okay.
The "I don't have a gun but holy sh*t i'm scared, I'm gonna tell him I do" scenario. So I hear a person come up my stairs, okay. Then I hear them break my window. Okay "I GOT A GUN AND I'm NUH-NUH-NOT AFRAID TO USE IT!". He pulls out his gun. They come in and kill me. Okay.
The "I'm a pussy because I own a firearm to protect myself and my property" scenario. So I hear a person come up my stairs, okay. Then I hear them break m window. Okay *grabs gun and posts behind wall, waits for them to get into a position where they CAN'T draw a gun without me shooting first*, Announces I have a gun and to freeze.
Well, from here, it's in the person breaking into my hands. If he's not a pussy, he's gonna get arrested. If he is a pussy, he's gonna get shot.
Yeah, I guess those pussy gun owners are pussies...
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Mar 23, 2012 - 08:49pm PT
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Ron,
His father is white, mother Peruvian.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 23, 2012 - 08:53pm PT
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+1 for Reiley.
I was standing in line once to get my Hunting licence. This fat slob repuglican NRA wanker gleefully proclaims to his fat kid. " the killing starts tomorrow"
Totally disgusted me.. No honor or respect for the deer giving its life to feed his family just a need to make up for his small penis by killing whatever he can. Pathetic.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
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Mar 23, 2012 - 08:55pm PT
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I thought the incident at hand here occurred out on the street not in Z-man's house.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Mar 23, 2012 - 08:55pm PT
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I was standing in line once to get my Hunting licence. This fat slob repuglican NRA wanker gleefully proclaims to his fat kid. " the killing starts tomorrow"
Totally disgusted me.. No honor or respect for the deer giving its life to feed his family just a need to make up for his small penis by killing whatever he can. Pathetic.
He most likely shot the dear in the head, exclaimed "BOOM HEADSHOT!", packed up the deer, then went home and on the way ate McDonalds.
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