Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 10:04am PT
|
The circus is Super Topo, not Kruk and Kennedy's alpine achievements. Let's not confuse the two. Respect, guys.
Agree
|
|
New Age II
climber
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 10:16am PT
|
I do not agree at all! He's right .... Enzolino
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 10:25am PT
|
If you call a respectful conversation with some of the top climber in the world a circus, so be it. Right on Coz.
I think Rollo should have done it himself, but I very much respect his climbing, the man he is and his willingness to take a stand. He probably would have except he is probably more involved with amazing new things.
He is a class act, and one of the best climber the world has ever seen, doesn't mean I have to agree, however. Right on again!
|
|
New Age II
climber
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 10:26am PT
|
The two young people have used the bolts to go up .... what is so innovative?
|
|
YoungGun
climber
North
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 10:30am PT
|
If you call a respectful conversation with some of the top climber in the world a circus, so be it.
Let me clarify. The OTHER thread was a circus with all of its rumors, speculation and misinformation. (And I'm not placing blame. I'm as ignorant as anyone.) I agree this thread is pretty civilized and has some thoughtful comments from legendary climbers, like yourself, which I appreciate.
|
|
gmmcdoug
Mountain climber
Calgary AB
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 10:46am PT
|
Natural state? There will still be broken bolts and machine gun holes all the way up the route. It is still desecrated. It may make Lama's free ascent easier, he can likely use the holes as pockets.
Over bolting is bad,
un-necessary bolting is bad
Chipping holds is bad
Styles that needlessly compromise the environment bad.
But really, removing the bolts? There are still holes everywhere. How does this make it any better. As opposed to it being of historical significance, where people can climb (or clip) it if they like it is now a bigger broken piece of trash. (edit note: Cerro Torre is not trash- it is likely the most beutiful peak in the world)
What to me is funny is to me is that the biggest advocates of chopping the route at least tried to climb ir or have (kudos boys, first hand knowledge). It could be argued some cut their teeth on it. So again if they got to try it and make a decision on Maestri's merits, why should others not have the same right?
Outof curiosuity how many people still sumitted the route by the compressor route each year? I was still under the impression, it didn't see that many.
|
|
Snorky
Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 11:35am PT
|
that's fukin bullshite that they chopped the compressor route. i can just envision expeditions arriving now, intent on the compressor, only to get their dreams dished by these radical purist. i'm really dissapointed at whoever talked hayden and partner into this desecration. i don't give a fuk about what and how they climbed it, they fuked a historical route that was put up way before they were born. kids have no clue.
to hayden, i hope these are the last bolts that you will ever chop.
you been to patagonia and argentina like what, 2 or 3 times? steve schneider
Once you admit to defecating on other people's gear, after chopping their bolts without prior inspection, I think you sacrifice the right to have a legitimate opinion about climbing ethics. Your attack on Kennedy and Kruk is hypocritical and unwarranted. Their actions may be controversial, but they are entirely defensible. I'm sure they will explain with thoughtful eloquence and it won't take them 29 years to do it. They are young, like you once were, but unlike you, I'm sure they thought about the significance of their actions within the continuum of climbing history, and will be prepared, like men, to own up to their actions and discuss them.
|
|
scotch
Mountain climber
italy
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 11:56am PT
|
All my congratulation. Now Cerro Torre is like the mother did it... Thank you, ermanno salvaterra
|
|
e9climbing.blogspot.com
Mountain climber
Alps (Euro trash )
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 12:08pm PT
|
This is just fantastic news! Chopping history!
|
|
Snowmassguy
Big Wall climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 12:21pm PT
|
So bummed. I was totally going to flash that route. I been training in the gym every Tuesday night doing endless laps! Even been practicing standing in my aiders. Also, just talked to my 1/2 French, half Italian guide and he is really pissed. This is totally not fair. Now im really gona die.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 12:26pm PT
|
Jason and Hayden many many thanks for a ton of cartoon fodder.
How much did you pay them? How did you mislead those two innocent young men into a life of bolt chopping?
|
|
Snorky
Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 12:29pm PT
|
Was that a cheap shot? Yeah, maybe. Sorry. I feel slightly bad. Seemed fair enough at the time.
Go to another thread with your childish ranting.
There is no childish ranting to be found in this thread.
Anyway, back to the Compressor Route:
|
|
Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 12:34pm PT
|
Honestly Snorky, I found your rationale spot on.
SS dissing the bolt chop is akin to the pot calling the kettle black, no racism meant toward African Americans or potheads.
|
|
enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 12:40pm PT
|
Ermanno Salvaterra,
you also added bolts on Cerro Torre, right?
So, I don't understand your enthusiasm if you "violated" the mountain as well.
Or, I understand it in "hypocritical" or incongruent perspective.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 12:57pm PT
|
A picture is worth a thousand words.
|
|
Kinobi
climber
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 01:09pm PT
|
With reference to:
"Enzo, they were watched climbing by Colin Haley.
Proof enough for any reasonable person. "
Well, this is false: Rolo never belived Cesarino Fava who said se saw Egger/Maestri climbing.
Ciao,
E
|
|
bmacd
Mountain climber
100% Canadian
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 01:21pm PT
|
I can speculate one thing with accuracy, before Jason left for the southern hemisphere he spent considerable time teaching himself final cut pro. We chatted about video shooting and the importance of getting a good sequence to to work with before the editing starts.
I have no doubt there will be some superb video coming back to North America of their exploits on Cerro Torre. Better get your Vancouver International Mountain Film Festival tickets now.
|
|
guest
climber
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 01:26pm PT
|
Let’s be sure our details are correct for some of our judgments -- some folks are mistaken on a couple of key points:
• “Did the Argentines agree to this? This is their mountain, their route, in their country” and whole ‘Merican/Canadian “cowboys” thing that implies outsiders are wrecking a locals’ route. The Compressor Route was established by an Italian “cowboy.” Cesari Maestri was not local. It’s not like he had some sort of “local’s consent” (however one would accurately gather that, anyway…) before installing a hardware store on the most beautiful peak in the world. To imply that Hayden and Jason were acting as wild “cowboys” while giving a de facto pass to Maestri, who did the extraordinary damage in the first place as a foreigner himself, is wrong.
• The “applying today’s standards to yesterday’s routes” thing – in general I agree with what folks mean, but it’s totally mistaken in the case of the Compressor Route. It was globally decried at the time it went in – hell, back in that time, bolting was probably less accepted than it is today. 40 years ago, Maestri’s bolt-a-thon made the cover of the influential Mountain magazine, with the title: “Cerro Torre: a Mountain Desecrated.” It wasn’t anywhere near accepted at the time. Probably even less accepted then than it is today.
Of course folks have the right to think the route should stay, and I understand some of those arguments, but ya shouldn’t base them on inaccuracies.
--Kelly
|
|
enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
|
|
|
Jan 20, 2012 - 01:48pm PT
|
Kelly,
the largest inaccuracy is to ignore the historical and ethical context in, which Maestri was acting.
Beside his undisputable free climbing skills, Maestri came from an ethical heritage in Dolomites, where the alpinists of the time were "exploring" the style of direttissima. These were the '50 and '60 and only late in the sixties climbers started to criticize. The famous Messner article "The Murderer of the impossible" was written in 1971.
Therefore to blame Maestri for an ethic which was a product of his time is, I'm sorry for this, a gesture of ignorance.
Re-write history and describe Maestri and the Compressor route as megalomaniac or insane as has been done, is absolutely unfair.
I wonder if any of who discredit Maestri, beside Garibotti or Salvaterra, has ever read Maestri's books or Alpine history.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!