Black Diamond Cams: China vs. US manufactured

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 81 - 100 of total 108 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

adatesman

climber

philadelphia, pa

Nov 22, 2011 - 06:23pm PT

Or is he confusing us with marketing? I seem to recall reports coming out recently regarding problems with Apple's supply chain WRT to documentation of environmental and workplace environment issues. IIRC Apple flew Chinese speaking employees over there, only to have them be told everything is fine and be quickly shuffled out the door. Not to say that everything in made in China is roses, but the report I heard on NPR regarding Apple was quite surprising.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Nov 22, 2011 - 06:30pm PT

There are surely legitimate concerns about at least some products manufactured in China, and indeed other developing countries, often in east or south Asia. Labour standards, product quality, environmental protection, general reputation of the manufacturer, the politics of the places where they come from, and so on. But some of the concerns expressed seem somewhat paternalistic, as though the Chinese are incapable of making decisions for themselves. Maybe sometimes, but always? And some of the concerns, and how they're expressed, verge on racism. You half expect someone to start ranting about the nefarious yellow peril, and other xenophobic nonsense.

Studly

Trad climber

Nov 22, 2011 - 09:15pm PT

Chinese manufacturing has some of the worse and some of the best manufacturers on the planet. The tide is quickly turning, and as they re-tool and refine, their quality in all things improves. Also take into account that a buyer gets what they pay for. To lump all manufacturers in China into one bunch is ignorant. Take a look at the Skyscrapers in Shanghai, or consider that China is now in space, and going to the moon soon. Don't think because you have bought a crap product from China, it is because that is what the Chinese are capable of. Its a big planet, and the Chinese now supply it all. Pretty scary.

Wade Icey

Trad climber

www.alohashirtrescue.com

Dec 22, 2011 - 11:36am PT

skating on stilts

damo62

Social climber

Brisbane

Feb 26, 2012 - 06:17pm PT

China will make a product to the standard they are paid for.

mike m

Trad climber

black hills

Feb 26, 2012 - 07:18pm PT

I used the new petzl ice tools yesterday they sound like I was banging a lawn chair into the ice but they weigh half as much as my current tools and are the bomb.

fear

Ice climber

hartford, ct

Feb 26, 2012 - 07:43pm PT

I'm no longer a BD customer.... Not that they care.

It's not worth my life to roll the dice on Chinese garbage.

For a company that produces something in such relatively low volumes such as climbing cams there is no reason for them to produce them with slave labor.

I have yet to hear about any climber I know buying this cam or that cam based on price.

surfstar

climber

Santa Barbara, CA

Feb 26, 2012 - 08:51pm PT

^possibly hooked...

I have yet to hear about any climber I know buying this cam or that cam based on price.

Listen.

I am a new climber with a shiny new rack that's less than a year old. I bought a bunch of WC Tech Friends on closeout (b/c heliums were coming out) for dirt cheap. Most people prefer c4s it seems, but I was budget conscious. I then picked up .75-2 c4s when on sale and don't seem to have any preference between the two brands - and the slight size differences make them a great complimentary doubles set. Master cams were purchased on sale also for my small stuff.

Ever read any of the "are rock empire cams gonna kill me?" posts? Those climbers are specifically searching for the cheapest [retail] price. I just wait for a sale and stick with the major brands. Seems the only deadly climbing gear coming out of China is the counterfeit stuff.

apogee

climber

Feb 27, 2012 - 01:04am PT

OK, there's a bunch of die-hard BD fanatics who will stand by BD until they die because their # 2 Camalot failed. Good on ya for remaining loyal.

Answer me this, kiddos...name three products that were originally made in the US, then offshored to China, that now retain the same level of quality, and good reputation, as they had when they were produced domestically?

<'Jeopardy' music>

James Wilcox

Boulder climber

The Coast

Feb 27, 2012 - 02:15am PT

When I did a brief stint with Audi a few years ago
I was told that the units built in China stayed in the that market,
as they felt the quality standards of those units
wouldn't be acceptable in the European or American
Markets.
I'm not sure if that same philosophy was used by
the parent company, Volkswagen, regarding their production.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Feb 27, 2012 - 05:31am PT

Randisi, interesting. If you punch in "dalian liaoning china map" in google and use satellite view you can get an eyeful of your harbor. Lots of untreated lines running straight into the ocean and you can even see a Chinese aircraft carrier under construction.

No one should be naive about why U.S. companies go to China - it's the money - and a component of that money is avoiding U.S. pollution controls. We import manufactured goods while exporting our manufacturing pollution. It's a bargain with a lot of long term downsides for both us and the Chinese people.

jeff_m

Social climber

700' up

Feb 27, 2012 - 11:51am PT

Funny this is still going on, but...

Old BD sling tag: "BD USA - Tested Three Sigma"
New BD sling tag: "Warning - Climbing is dangerous"

Kinda sums it up.

fear

Ice climber

hartford, ct

Feb 27, 2012 - 12:23pm PT

When 30' over my last 'bomber' #2 Camalot, I don't want to be hoping that they "got it right" in China.

I'm sure China will eventually be cranking out some good products but the fact remains that it's cheaper over there because of slave labor and no environmental controls. How many American companies have used poisonous fillers in baby formula to make a profit?

Why buy critical life-saving equipment from such a vendor when we still have a choice of other brands? Is saving $30 or $40 bucks a cam really that big a deal on something that can last 10 years?

Of more concern to me is that it's obvious Black Diamond has gone malignant/corporate with such a move. Of course such a move makes sense for BD Inc. in the short-term. I'm sure the bonuses this year will be fantastic.

miwuksurfer

Social climber

Mi-Wuk

Feb 27, 2012 - 12:54pm PT

I know this has been noted more than once in various threads but...

Regardless of where they are produced, BD cam production is now directed by Warren Kanders of Armour Holdings fame. He also owns luxury hotels and spas. He is making executive decisions about your climbing gear.

He probably has no idea who the AAC or Access Fund or ASCA is. He probably couldn't pick his own BD ATC from a Reverso in a lineup.

surfstar

climber

Santa Barbara, CA

Feb 27, 2012 - 01:29pm PT

When 30' over my last 'bomber' #2 Camalot, I don't want to be hoping that they "got it right" in China.

That'd be a hell of a lawsuit. Doesn't matter how many 'climbing is dangerous' labels are there. If you can prove their gear failed in a way it shouldn't, you [or your widow] will be set. You can put some 'spinners' on your wheelchair. "bling, bling"

Is MSG more dangerous to climbers than Chinese Camalots? Another thing to worry about...

James Wilcox

Boulder climber

The Coast

Feb 27, 2012 - 02:43pm PT

BD cam production is now directed by Warren Kanders of Armour Holdings fame. He also owns luxury hotels and spas. He is making executive decisions about your climbing gear.

Yeah, it might be time to retire the photo of Yvon hammering
away on his anvil whenever they talk about their "roots".
Those aren't the type of roots you can buy.

N0_ONE

Social climber

Utah

Feb 27, 2012 - 05:24pm PT

"Regardless of where they are produced, BD cam production is now directed by Warren Kanders of Armour Holdings fame. He also owns luxury hotels and spas. He is making executive decisions about your climbing gear"

Exactly! And coupled with China's reputation.....enough said! See ya bd!

michaeld

Sport climber

Sacramento

Feb 27, 2012 - 05:38pm PT

I was told to stay off the Bay Bridge after they used Chinese steel.

2 weeks later it cracked under stress and shot a beam strait through the asphalt on the freeway.

LUCKILY! I'm already gonna die, and i'm not climbing a bridge. I do need a new rack, i'll probably get Metolius cams. Then the rack after will be BD for sure.