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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Happie, if you want to learn the simplest topic (mean or average) in statistics, new thread, or e-mail me. Or check wikipedia.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Stinky,
I disagree. It has nothing to do with life and everything to do with women's bodies. There is simply no definition of life or any other aspect of reproduction that in anyway abrogates a woman's control over her own body. There is no other discussion - only distraction away from a woman's fundamental [human] right to freedom and privacy.
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stinky
climber
Guymon OK
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If the debate, anger and killings (if they are killings), force us to question our beliefs and the conduct our being, yes.
If they cause us to dig deeper into our defensive rationalizations, disrespect others and ourselves with dogmatic obfuscations, no.
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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So healyje,
The abortion occurs and labor is induced. But the fetus/baby is still alive. What does the doctor do now?
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spyork
Trad climber
Fremont, CA
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So if a woman from South Dakota tries to leave the state, would you:
a) Wave and sing 'Happy Trails to you'
b) Make her take a pregnancy test?
c) make her sign an affadavit stating she will not visit a planned parenthood clinic?
d) Strap a transponder onto her that sets off an alarm if she ventures near the GPS coordinates of a planned parenthood site?
Hey, if abortion is murder, you know you can't go halfway, then you would be a hypocrite.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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ragmeat wrote:
I am saying that a man should not have to support the child if the woman chooses not to terminate the pregnancy. I don't give a sh#t about whether or not the child is born, the point is to keep poverty from taking over the already low-income sections of cities and the nation as a whole.
here is the inexperienced and unworldly child of some rightwing loudmouth who thinks he can engineer some aspect of society to his liking on the backs of poor women by making their family planning choices even more bleak than they are now.
can't you just imagine the conversations at the dinner table at their house?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apocalypsenow - there are a million scenarios. In that one I'd say the an abortion was taking place at the request of the woman, not a birth, and the fetus should be killed.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Matt, you are the first person ever to call me a loudmouth. Everybody complains that I do not speak loud enough and that I am hard to hear. Unless you are talking about my wife, who presumably you have never met. And she is not a loud-mouth either.
When your mate does not have an abortion, will you be teaching your offspring to call other people names? Or is that genetic?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Roger, your logic is so convoluted at this point it's nonsensical. And your ever racist vinettes say about all one needs to about your lack of any [mature and] cogent standing in the matter.
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WBraun
climber
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Without male involvement,
Yes, good logic Rajmit ....
Yes they will not be able to penetrate into the finer subtilities which you are pointing to.
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stinky
climber
Guymon OK
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Healyje,
You deny the existence of the anti-abortion movement.
"There is simply no definition of life or any other aspect of reproduction that in anyway abrogates a woman's control over her own body."
There is a definition of life that does exactly that. It is the definition of those who oppose abortion. In their eyes it is privacy vs. murder.
If it is your contention that until birth privacy trumps the "right to life", that is a valid argument. But unless I misunderstand you, that is not your position.
I read that you are defending "a woman's fundamental [human] right to freedom and privacy." against what you believe is an illegitimate claim of human rights made by the patriarchy on behalf of the fetus. If this is the case, the the question of what life is, is exactly the relevant question.
If debate is to progress, you have to join it, not just build a wall against the rival opinion.
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WBraun
climber
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Hey
Where did everybody go?
This thread is like a speeding train that lost it's breaks at the curve and then went over the cliff into .... (obliviation?).
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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TG- you are being called a loudmouth because a kid doesn't develop these kinds of ideas in a vacuum.
H- he is a kid, he has never known a poor woman personally, and he is not operating w/ logic, he is repeating the opinions of others and is dependent on their (albeit limited) logic.
WB- i am gone too...
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WBraun
climber
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No no I disagree, Matt
He does have very good logic at times, it can be carried over from a past life, and is not indicative by ones age in this life.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Stinky (and Werner / Roger),
Again, it isn't a matter of "joining the discussion". A woman's fundamental [human] right to freedom and privacy is non-negotiable. Period. Anything that infringes or compromises either of those rights (or any other right) deserves nothing but steadfast opposition. Ditto for freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, privacy - three other freedom's likewise under "discussion" by this administration...
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WBraun
climber
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healyje
Who gives the rights?
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stinky
climber
Guymon OK
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I disagree. The debate (as I see it) is about conflicts between these fundamental freedoms.
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dirtbag
climber
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Freedom is never so absolute, Healyje.
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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healyje,
A woman fully intends to have an abortion...but puts it off. She is rushed to the hospital during a miscarriage but the 5 month old survives. Does she still have the right to kill it, because she did intend to have an abortion?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Stinky, That's the difference. There is no conflict.
Werner - [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inalienable_rights" target="_blank"]inalienable[/url]
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