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shady
Trad climber
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Jul 24, 2011 - 07:33pm PT
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Lolli:
About the insanity thing. I worked for over a decade in a psych hospital. Even though I was in the maintenance department, I learned a few things.
If this guy is indeed insane, he will never feel remorse for his deeds.
His brain construction was made without the capacity for what we call, morality, empathy or compassion.
This is why we have the ruling, "not guilty through reason of insanity." This doesn't mean he didn't do it, but more, he did do it, but he doesn't have the capacity to understand what he did was wrong, and therefore is a true threat to society, And in this case he would spend the rest of his life incarcerated.
Regardless of his sanity, he should never breath the sweet air of freedom ever again.
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from an ice pick and missing my mama.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2011 - 07:33pm PT
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Grrr... He doesn't deserve to be heard. I don't think "anything" he wants should be considered. His wishes and desires are "freedoms." Freedoms that should be forever denied to him for the rest of his life. Please... Someone lock him up into a solitary room where he will never have human contact again and... Throw away the key.
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from an ice pick and missing my mama.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2011 - 08:44pm PT
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I can't help but think of Richard Ramirez, a.k.a. The Night Stalker, serial killer, a man that "enjoyed killing..." I can't help remember that during his trial he had developed a "fan club." Oh, I can't express how much that disturbed me! Especially hearing how the women were so captivated by his good looks, etc. etc. I was just a child during that trial and even I understood how horrific all of it was.
Any form of attention to killers should be illegal.
How can anyone "like" someone who had committed the most terrible deeds? All I can say is I hope he is not allowed an audience. There are some very sick people who will be attracted to the murders, to him, etc.
AFS
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jstan
climber
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Jul 24, 2011 - 09:06pm PT
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Around 1790 Parisian mobs were quite rightfully angry at their mistreatment, they cut off a few heads, and millions died in the Napoleonic wars.
In the 1930's the Germans were very angry over the terms of the treaty ending WWI, they formed lynch mobs that beat up people on the street, and even more millions of people died.
Here on ST we have angry people. What have we learned that convinces us our judgment is better?
Events such as this should unify and drive us to do better.
Just the opposite has been accomplished.
The anger is multiplied.
Only a matter of time till the critical threshold is reached.
Only a matter of time.
Can we not find a better method of population control?
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from an ice pick and missing my mama.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2011 - 09:16pm PT
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jstan,
I don't get it either. All I can figure out is that people must really love to hate. They love to judge, feel the rush of "righteous anger." They are made powerful by their convictions without care or empathy. They never bother taking the time to consider the truth behind it all, the other side of the story, etc.
I also know people say the worst things behind people's back and on the internet when they don't need to face their victims.
Heck, I know tons of people that have spoken bad things about me without ever speaking ever to me about it. It's as if they love the story so much they don't want it shaken, changed, ever exposed to the light.
It's chicken sh#t.
One day someone is going to murder another for the wrong reasons and... In many ways we've allowed it to happen.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 24, 2011 - 09:17pm PT
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It makes them feel better about their own lives.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 24, 2011 - 11:41pm PT
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My father is flying his Norwegian flag over his house, which is a nice touch.
It seems likely that the Norwegian legal system will be well-prepared for events tomorrow, to prevent the court appearance from becoming a circus, or providing the murderer with a platform to spew his evil.
The murders of the children took place on Utøya (="Out Island"), which is on the east side of a large, "H" shaped lake, 30 km or so northwest of Oslo. The lake is named Tyrifjorden, although it is freshwater - it's fairly common for lakes in Norway to be called 'fjords'. Geographers internationally mostly use the word for bodies of salt water.
Wes: Yes, I talked with the local garden shop, and they recommended a mixture of lichen and buttermilk (!) to regrow lichen. I'm not sure they quite understood where I need to grow the stuff, though. If I apply it during dry summer weather, it will dry up and blow away. In winter, wash away. Maybe during damp but not wet weather, giving the stuff a chance? Any advice your girlfriend can provide would be welcome.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 25, 2011 - 02:24am PT
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It appears that one of the targets of the murderer was former prime minister Gro Harlem Brundtland, who had spoken at the youth camp at Utøya a day earlier. Prime Minister Stoltenberg was to speak at it the day after the murders. Brundtland has a high international profile.
The names of the victims will not be released for about a week. Probably not a good week for the tabloids to harass the families.
Denmark will also observe a minute of silence at noon on Monday. It's now morning there, so perhaps Lolli will check in later.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 25, 2011 - 02:28am PT
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(Suggested by Lolli earlier.)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 25, 2011 - 12:02pm PT
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What doesn't make sense to me is that if you're anti-Muslim immigration, why slaughter a bunch of your on countrymen? At a youth camp?
God bless the fallen.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 25, 2011 - 12:11pm PT
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Norwegian prison isn't really prison.
That looks like the Super 8 in Coos Bay. Much nicer than the Motel 6 in Eureka. It's a hell of a lot nicer than our Cadets at West Point have it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1277158/Halden-Prison-Inside-Norways-posh-new-jail.html
If he's found to be an especially bad egg, he's sent off to an island "prison":
That looks like the B&Bs at places like Haceta Head and Cabrillo Point Lighthouses ( which go for about $400/night and up ).
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 25, 2011 - 12:25pm PT
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What doesn't make sense to me is that if you're anti-Muslim immigration, why slaughter a bunch of your on countrymen? At a youth camp?
God bless the fallen.
Blue, as I have read it, the youth camp these children were attending is run by the Labor Party. It may be that the killer saw them as future leaders of the party he opposes.
He is a monster.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area , California
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Jul 25, 2011 - 12:42pm PT
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if this was done in US, he was already tied up to some cells in Afghanistan so we could extend the BS war for another 20 years
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 25, 2011 - 01:52pm PT
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Please. This thread is intended to be a dignified place to remember the dead and what happened, and for civil discussion about what happened and may happen. There are lots of political threads where those of you who are so inclined can post to your hearts' content, yell at each other, and on and on. The "Republicans" thread. The fatuous "Clash of Civilizations" thread. Etc etc, with wearying monotony.
Please don't do it here. If you can't be civil, constructive, and on topic, go away.
As for the photos, supposedly of a Norwegian prison. Assume that the photos fairly show some aspects of a typical Norwegian prison, the sort of place that a mass murderer might be jailed. (We don't know that, of course. It could be somewhere where convicted drunk drivers are kept on day parole, before being released.) Even if that's the case, perhaps all it does is illustrate the flaws of other countries' prisons and rehabilitation systems.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jul 25, 2011 - 01:58pm PT
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very sad deal. this thread though about sums up some of the issues of humanity. nearly 100 innocents needlessly and ruthlessly killed and some Supertopo posters are too busy arguing, slandering, controlling, etc. rather than getting thier own life.
FACT: IS THE FARMACY CLOSED TODAY OR SUMTHIN? \
FACT: i think some of this crowd needs sumthin stronger than what the pharmacy has in stock!
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PP
Trad climber
SF,CA
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Jul 25, 2011 - 02:59pm PT
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There is an interresting article in the Atlantic monthly (Mind on trial) It's about the guy who shot many people from the texas library tower. apparently he had a brain tumor in an area of his brain that affected urge control and he had been to a doctor asking for help from uncontrollable violent urges. He left a note asking for his brain to be studied because he knew something was wrong. He murdered his mother ,his wife and then many people at that texas library.
un-helped mental illness can cause great tradgedies. In the US there are many mentally ill that are placed in solitary confinement in our prisons.
It seems like these things come out of no where; but they don't.
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